He can Build a Lego Creation but He Can't Draw/Write?

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My son has not been formally diagnosed with anything yet, but we strongly suspect Asperger's. Have an appointment scheduled for next month.

I am just wondering . . . how are your child's drawing/writing skills? My son is 4 1/2 --very, very bright--and he still can't color--he still just kind of scribbles one or two colors all over the paper or 'generally' over the thing he wants colored. Usually, he just refuses to color--hands me the marker or crayon and asks me to do it, 'Because,' he says, 'I can't.' He also cannot really write any letters or draw anything, though we have been trying for awhile. He can't hold the pen/pencil very well at all, though we've tried to show him. He makes these really crooked things that vaguely resemble the letter, only if you know which one it is you asked him to write! And he cannot draw anything really.

The thing is, I highly doubt it is motor skills because he has been building detailed Lego creations since he was about 3. He can make numbers and letters out of Lego. Animals out of Lego. (Lego is his obsession if you can't guess!) He can also string small beads and put on his own clothes.

So, I'm wondering if any of you have seen similar disparities in your child in regards to drawing/writing? I have done some reading and I know he is pretty behind in that way--most 4 1/2 year olds can draw a general stick figure or at least something close, and many can write their letters. I am getting a little bit worried, and wonder if some OT might be in our near future.
Do you think we can somehow figure out on our own how to help him do this or is OT the only way? Or should we give him more time? For example, did you child kind of catch up slowly over kindergarten?

My handwriting has always been terrible. I used to have alot of trouble with pens and pencils, but years of practice have gotten me bit better. In this hospital I work at, everyone tells me I should have been a doctor because of my penmanship.

Not speaking for a diagnosis, just a generalization, your sons skills in legos may have nothing to do with motor skills so much as spatial perception. He can see where the piece is, and thats where it goes.

I use legos, alot, and kind of work the same way. I'll often fumble with or drop the pieces, but in the end they always go where the need to be.

Does he have trouble with any other kind of activites that involve motor skills? (I don't rightly understand children, or what age appropriate development is, so some of these inquiries might be off base or irrelevant.) Does he have trouble tying his shoes? I remember it took me a year long that other kids to get that one.

Trouble with sports; catching a ball, kicking an object- that sort of thing?

Things like that don't neccesarily rule in/out autism, but there are things involving motor skills.

It's also important to understand the distinction between fine and gross motor skills.
Most Auties/Aspies struggle with the 'fine' but do okay or even well in the 'gross' category.

Disgraphia, hypotonia, and/or hypermobility can all be co-morbid with AS and were, for us, the cart that drove the horse into getting our son assessed for special education. I have lots of posts describing the road we took, but the end point is that my son needed accommodations and assistance until he was able to keyboard fluently. He did tracking exercises, hand strengthening exercises, and so on, as well. You can definitely get those balls rolling yourself.

My son actually has a really strong artistic eye, and sense of proportion, and it has made me sad to know he'll never to be able to fully execute his visions. But life isn't usually fair, and he's moved on. He's 14 and doing great.

My son is very artistic too, DW--seen mostly in his Lego work and in his tape/paper creations or his 'projects' as he calls them. I feel like he could do so much with it, but yes, that currently he is limited. He visualizes a lot but can't do it exactly as he'd like. But he tries and is happy with that usually!

As far as other fine motor skills, it's funny that you mentioned it Mister J, but we have never even owned a pair of shoes with laces for him yet. Pretty much figured he wouldn't be able to do it yet. He can button his clothes if they are big buttons.

Fork, spoon, cup handling--all very sloppy and I think a bit delayed. Spills a lot and couldn't drink from a cup without lid/straw until just recently. Clumsy in general. Hurts others accidentally a lot b/c he doesn't know where his body (or the hard toy in his hand) are going.

However, other gross motor skills--pretty good at riding a bike, climbing things, etc.
Interesting point about the Lego--he does lose/drop the small pieces a lot, but it is amazing what he can build with them, even the tiniest pieces. He makes it work.

I have trouble buttoning my shirt.
I have trouble threading a needle.
I have trouble with just about everything that involves fine motor skills (and gross motor skills too, for that matter).

However.
I'm a musician, and a damn good one. Music requires incredible fine motor ability.
It seems to be one of those "islets of ability" that appear in autism.

I have a music student with autism who, like me, has motor skills problems that disappear when he picks up a musical instrument.

Something similar may be happening with your son and his Lego skills vs his writing skills.

Wow, Who Am I--that is awesome. Very, very interesting too.
My son is passionate about Lego--well, more accurately, he is passionate about building things. So, perhaps you could be right. He is determined to do it because he loves it and he does.

I'm glad it helped.

I know that for me, with music, the obsessive aspect does help, but it's not the whole picture. I don't know exactly what's going on, but it seems that the auditory feedback overrides the problematic motor skills for me.

Could some similar overriding process be going on with your son and his Lego? That is, could there be an aspect of his building that he is able to focus on to such an extent that it compensates for any motor skills problems he has?

Interesting posts that made me think about my 10 y.o. DS. He is great at legos and can build intricate designs both original and following those detailed instruction books (in fact he often corrects me when we build together). He can draw detailed pictures while looking at an object from age 7 or so, but can barely draw a stick person or any object from memory and would always get comments on his poor handwriting skills. It is legible, but messy. When he writes letters, he does it weirdly... they come out the same as anyone's letters, its just the process seems awkward/backward at times. (he is right handed). He has been building intricate things out of cardboard, tape, and scissors since he was three, but had problems in school cutting out pictures and pasting them. (I am so glad to be out of that stage in school).

As for the OT, have the OT or a psychologist do a WRAVMA to screen and see if he has some difficulties with visual motor, visual spatial, or fine motor. Also, get some exercises for his weaker areas, make it a game. It can't hurt.

I really do think so much has to do with what their special interests are. My son is hyperlexic so he really prefers the big letter blocks to Lego. He doesn't have the patience to fiddle with those small pieces, especially since they aren't even lettered. His fine motor skills are poor, and his handwriting is horrible although I know he would love it to be perfect. That said he has been trying because he loves them so.

Maybe you could get him to draw his Lego creations and write names for them? He might still have trouble, and he may still need OT, but it could not hurt. Does have other special interests that might overlap?

I think interest can help a child keep at it even when it is frustrating, but it isn't enough to overcome the real disabilities that might exist. My son really, really REALLY wanted to write, he had full books in his head starting at age 3 or so, and eagerly went through the normal "kid writing" stage in an effort to record them, but then he hit the wall. We saw it mostly in behavior problems and attitude, more than him ever admitting it was just too hard, but what it really came down to was his realizing it was too hard.

It was a big surprise to us because he was an early drawer, doing really pretty loops in multiple colors at a very young age.

Legos and clay and other 3D things are really a whole other animal, I think they use the hands and fingers in a different way. But there was a time he hit the wall on that stuff, too, at a much later age than with the writing, where it started to require muscle control he just couldn't muster. Lucky for him, he has an artistic mom and sister, and he hands things off to us for detailing and finishing, when he really wants to see that realized. But there is no question that he sees it as a disability, just one he has accepted and learned to live with.

Strangely enough he does wood carving pretty well, but I have no idea how his skills there compare to other kids his age. Maybe they all can carve beautifully?

Hopefully your son isn't as impaired as mine, and will be able to get better help earlier. For us, the OT we got didn't seem to really make much difference, as far as increasing his ability to write by hand goes, but I think the issue has gotten a lot more attention since then, and hopefully therapists today are offering more. I do think we made a mistake by just letting the school handle it, and not try bringing the exercises home, but at the time no one suggested it, and we didn't ask. It seemed like such a non-issue to me, because I rapidly attached to the conclusion he would eventually keyboard, and not being able to hand write just wouldn't be that big a deal. I have no way of knowing if more work would have made a difference, but when you are facing a condition that really can be disabling, I think one should try. Sure, writing is easily dealt with on a keyboard, but art is not, and if there is art in your child, they'll someday feel the loss.

All that said, my son does keyboard beautifully, and is also comfortable using software to create art for his programs. There is a good chance he'll pull all his talents together and become something like a computer game designer: he can program, he still creates full new worlds in his head all the time, and he roughs out really cool artistic visions. Either that, or he'll be an inventor: he does have a fantastic way of seeing how parts can move together. When you look at the body of talents some of our kids have, it really is no surprise so many Aspies end up creating some of our best inventions and books or movies. A little trouble holding a crayon doesn't have to stop it in a world full of technology.

When you get further down the road, I have written long pages of the process it takes to move a child with writing issues through school, and to where my son is. It is a long, slow road because so many developmental milestones have to be reached before certain accommodations are put in place; you don't want to discourage any part of the natural developmental growth process. We had no guide for it, but I think we struck the right chords at the right time for our unique child; I am just so relieved to feel like we're on the other side now, with a child that can take notes in class, put his thoughts to paper and be HAPPY doing so, edit his own work, etc. There really was a time we weren't sure any of that would happen.

Sounds like my son at that age (he has no official diagnosis, but his strengths and weaknesses fit Asperger's).
When he was four, we bought him a tub of Knex for ages +7 because we found it on clearance. He went in his room and emerged later with a perfectly-constructed model of a carnival swing ride that went around in circles while the "seats" went in and out like an accordian. I don't think I could have built it, let's put it that way. I looked at the instruction book and saw he had followed the instructions to the letter, apart from the base. The base he had actually improved. "I made it more stabler," he said.
At the same time, he colored pictures using only one or two colors, and at six he still has problems holding his pencil and writing. Asperger's is a mixed bag.

As far as I could tell, DS had no fine motor issues other than writing/drawing. He could button and zip clothes, pick up and place legos, etc. He even did ok at tracing mazes, but strongly resisted worksheets with letters. He only drew scribles, no representational drawing. To me it seemed more a lack of interest than a lack of ability.

During his autism eval at age 5.25, the psychologist noted he could only write O, X, and T, and was still using a fist grip (which I think was actually due to a fatter pencil than he was used to), and referred us for an OT eval. He was so hyperactive during the OT eval she didn't really do all the spatial tests.

We started in Feb with an OT who also had sensory integration training, and also worked through all the capital letters at home using the Handwriting Without Tears chalkboard and pre-K workbook (Get Set for School). By Aug, DS was at age-level and kindergarten-ready with his writing, both capital and lowercase. He still has trouble with lowercase letters that go below the line (y,g,p, etc), but otherwise it looks good.

One interesting thing. One day during speech therapy, the therapist asked him to draw some of the words they were working on. He did his usual scribbles, so she pointed it out to me. I said I'd mention it to the OT as a concern. After the next OT session, he started drawing animals with heads, eyes, and legs. It was as if the notion that his drawings should look like an object had never even occured to him, and once it was pointed out to him he made the connection and could do it.

Last edited by zette on 02 Nov 2011, 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Even if he's not drawing now I don't think you're ever too old too become an artist! I have something called a Wacom tablet that works like a pencil and paper but draws digitally on the computer maybe he would take more to something like that over traditional media? My son (3 1/2 year old autie) usually uses that instead of a mouse to draw and play games on the computer. I'm not a digital artist but got it for myself to do little things before my son was born, I rarely used it - I had no idea how useful it would become down the road. My son is a scribbler too ... I downloaded a free tracing game on the iphone to try to encourage him to to learn to control his lines - you trace your finger along neon signs and they only light up if you stay on the lines ... he can play the game pretty well so I think it's helping. I am an artist and take a photo realistic approach in most of my drawings, I do very fine and detailed work and my handwriting is just awful. My printing is OK but it only got that way as an adult because I needed it to be legible to get a job I wanted so I worked hard to improve it ... but my cursive is still ugly and almost illegible. I don't know why there is a disconnect between handwriting and drawing, but there is - they seem to use different parts of the brain.

That sounds a lot like my son. He is currently 9 1/2, but when he was 4 (and 5), his "drawings" consisted of a series of circular type objects and/or a series of lines. Coloring with crayons was never something he did, and he didn't draw anything that represented anything until he was closer to 6 years old. Then, all of the sudden, his pictures were really intricate and had these amazing stories connected to them. They were like movies on paper. He draws maps of pretend places, with amazing detail and a key to let people know what all those symbols mean. He also draws "creatures." I don't think he's ever really drawn a person, except for stick figures for class assignments.

He builds amazing lego creations as well. Legos have always been his thing.

Unfortunately, I am too tired to write much in response, but suffice it to say it has been very encouraging and confirming and comforting to read all of your responses. Very funny to read how similar some of our kids sound! Lego is my son's thing for sure . . . I liked the idea of seeing if he wants to draw some of his Lego creations on paper. That might really connect with him and help him practice.
And I like the ideas of various technology to help him draw, express, create. I'm new at this and it's going to be a learning process for us all!

Angelgarden, though skills can be used with other outlets. Like Photography, being able to see the potential of what is infront as 'art', is more important than just taking random pictures that 'look good'.

I.e:.: My friends and I are walking down the road past seem steaming sewers. All of us walk-by as usual ignoring the environment. While I was probably thinking "coooooool steam.....yay!". However, the photographer friend among us thought of doing this pose for a pic. And stopped us all from crossing the street.

[img][800:617]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/Infoseeker/shane_picture.jpg[/img]