My business partner's daughter...

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I have never had children, but I have worked with kids who were roughly the age of my business partner's daughter...My business partner is sorta NT/PDD-NOS....his "babymamma" has borderline personality disorder....or somesuch...I am wondering how many words a a 16 month year old ought to be saying, and what a "normal" 16 ,month old should be like....When I was a Montessori assistant for kids that age (roughly 16 months) they were already being taught to follow instructions, put on their shoes, and could say some rudimentary words....I am sure the Pix is fine, but I guess I am a little impatient for her to seem like she understands a few more things...I am always Talking and Sounding things out....so that hopefully it will eventually sink in...tho I only get to see her for a little while each week...I work on simple words like "hat",,,,,I play music for her and she is very stimulated by that cause I have been playing music for her since she was an infant...and she has been programmed by me to LOVE the ukulele because of me.....but her speech is mainly just Yayayaya Mah Mah Mah Dah Dah Dah......I guess that is normal for 16 months...eh? Also...she hand flaps and spins....but juuust a wee little bit.... In general, she is very calm and well behaved...She seldom cries....she seems to have an abstract sense of humor and gets very happy and riled up over the oddest things...I bet that she will be perfectly fine...I just thought I would talk about her a bit...

I would keep my eye on her because of the hand flapping and spinning and the fact that she has few words. She is still very young, but if she doesn't have more words by age 2, I would be concerned. How is she around other children?
My son was diagnosed as PDD-NOS at 2.5 yrs old, but I knew he was on the spectrum from about 19 or 20 mos.

The only flag that has really gone up for me is that she is a very silent and calm baby most of the time. That is how I was....I notice that she will mimic my singing, but won't really ever try to pronounce any words...She will match my tone when I sing to her though....and that is how my grandmother taught me to be verbal...Perpetual singing,,,
Also she is showing signs of being left-handed...She seems a wee bit "off" in comparison to the Montessori kids I used to work with who were her age..but I am no expert....I just sorta feel like she should be talking a little bit more by now. Perhaps I am just impatient....The hand flapping, I only recently noticed.....same with the spinning...but she was on the ground in a chaotic environment and I was trying to show her some toys, and maybe she was just overwhelmed by the stimulus....

The singing really helps. I sang to my son ALOT and he is now totally verbal at 6 yrs old and speaks in complete sentences. Some children are just slower in the speech department, but at 16 mos, she should be saying two word phrases like "more juice" or other simple phrases. I would just keep singing to her and being more pronounced with the words you are using. At that age, it is hard to tell, because a lot of baby and toddler behavior can seem autistic, but it depends on how long it goes on. I have seen "normal" children flap hands and spin. It just depends on how much and how long they continue to do it.

My son was really slow at following directions. I started him in speech therapy at about 17 mos, and the therapist would give him one and two step directions and he would just look at us and not do anything. I would say, " I don't think he wants to do what you are asking" and she would say " I think he is not really comprehending what we are asking him to do" It was like he had trouble processing the information. We would just talk in very pronounced words and show him what we wanted him to do. For instance, he would not stack blocks at all. So we would just keep showing him and say "on top", "on top" while we were stacking the blocks.

Also, my son did not really play with toys. He would get interested in odd things around the house instead of the toys that we would give him. Alot of kids are like this to some degree, but when we would go somewhere with kids and lots of toys, it was like he just didn't know what to do. He never gravitated towards the kids or the toys.

Another thing to watch for is whether she is pointing to things or showing you things. That is a red flag if she is not.

Another red flag is if she starts to repeat back to you what you say. For example, I would ask my son "Do you want to go outside?" and he would say "Do you want to go outside?"

She is still very young, but I would definitely monitor her closely. I am a very firm believer in early intervention. I wouldn't begin to worry too much, but just keep working with her on the speech and watch how she is when she is around other children.

Hope some of this helps!

Good luck!

Here are the standard language development timelines:

Toddlerhood

During the second year of life language development proceeds at very different rates in different children. By the age of 12 months, most children use "mama/dada" appropriately. They add new words each month and temporarily lose words. Between 12 and 15 months children begin to do the following:
• recognize names
• understand and follow one-step directions
• laugh appropriately
• use four to six intelligible words, usually those starting with "b," "c," "d," and "g," although less than 20 percent of their language is comprehensible to outsiders
• use partial words
• gesture and speak "no"
• ask for help with gestures and sounds

At 15 to 18 months of age children usually do the following:
• understand "up," "down," "hot," "off"
• use 10 to 20 intelligible words, mostly nouns
• use complete words
• put two short words together to form sentences
• chatter and imitate, use some echolalia (repetitions of words and phrases)
• have 20 to 25 percent of their speech understood by outsiders

At 18 to 24 months of age toddlers come to understand that there are words for everything and their language development gains momentum. About 50 of a child's first words are universal: names of foods, animals, family members, toys , vehicles, and clothing. Usually children first learn general nouns, such as "flower" instead of "dandelion," and they may overgeneralize words, such as calling all toys "balls." Some children learn words for social situations, greetings, and expressions of love more readily than others. At this age children usually have 20 to 50 intelligible words and can do the following:
• follow two-step directions
• point to parts of the body
• attempt multi-syllable words
• speak three-word sentences
• ask two-word questions
• enjoy challenge words such as "helicopter"
• hum and sing
• express pain verbally
• have 50 to 70 percent of their speech understood by outsiders


Read more: Language Development - baby, stages, meaning, Definition, Description, Common problems http://www.healthofchildren.com/L/Langu ... z1iPw42HXx

Thanks..that is helpful....I will be seeing her today, I will try and work with her a bit....She is resistant to a lot of consonants...I cannot get her to say "Hat"....I always try to get her to sound out the different vowels and stuff...and drill into her the identifications of different objects.....she sorta has an unstructured environment. I am a part of that environment..she lives with her mom and then visits with her dad, and i am frequently present when he is watching her because he often has to work.....She does not ever nod her head...she shakes her head back and forth, but never up and down...and may not tell the difference between "yes and no"......she gets laughter and approval when the shakes her head (no)...and will do this gleefully..not understanding the context...it is cute...but I am still keeping tabs on her development when I can...She DOES make eye contact with me, but I am one of the people who she feels bonded with.....SHE is one of the few people with whom I can make eye contact with....She does not have a "name for me"......I try to say I am YeeYah....since that is what my younger sister called me when she was a toddler before she could pronounce my name.....also the kid I once nannied for would call me Mamma Yeeyah...since I was a female who performed caretaking duties sorta like a mom.
.....and she will often call me Da...or say Da? Da?.....but tho she might associate me with her dad cause I am often around him when he is watching her......I don't think she has a name for me.....tho apparently Ma and Da.....mean several different things in different contexts....it can mean either "mine" or "more" or Mom....and the word "Da"....is the same way.......

I am told that at family gatherings...she will not want to be held by anyone but her dad...and she is very clingy towards me and follows me around...Her mom is around her most of the time, and her mom is much younger than me, "NT" but a bit on the "scary" side...She is also very bossy and (hard to explain)...She may drop her off and her hair is akew or she is wearing clothes that hinder her movement..like footed pyjamas that are too long so that she trips over the feet....but she will constantly find fault in anything that other people try to do for her daughter......I am not a blood relative...I am the business partner of her dada....so I am sort of like a weird aunt..and I have been a nanny in the past...so nanny instincts do kick in....I don't get along very well with her mom...and that is part of the reason I don't get to see her very often.....but knowing her dad as I do, I recognize the potential for her development to be a little on the bumpy side..,,especially since her home life is sorta transient....

I was raised by both of my parents, but they often worked swing shifts....and things were not always very mentally stable in my household.....I gave babysitters hell if I was not "bonded" with them....I would have meltdowns and cry for hours....At least Pix is a happy baby....she very seldom cries....She gets fixated upon things rather than playing with toys....she shuns dolls and other toys like that in favor of the ukulele (my fault ) ...and she will be very fixated and posessive of the ukulele...she mainly covets my green flea....tho she has several other inferior ones that she can play with...she is pretty intent on THAT one....I got her a green uke for x-mas but she is not really satisfied by it....

I should focus on singing more with her....I don't get to do that as often when I see her...and she is usually "all over the place"....When she was "less mobile" as an infant, I would sing songs and play music with her for hours, and i seldom get the chance to do that....

It does sound to me like she is behind developmentally, which may or may not prove to mean anything but, still, it could be worth her parents seeking some preliminary evaluation and, perhaps, limited early intervention.

My son was one of those ahead of the scale, clearly bright Aspies as a baby (not that we had any clue he was an Aspie back then), so I can't really compare there.

A lot of what you describe could easily be attributable to her environment being a little rocky. All kids need routine and structure in order to feel secure and stable and to learn well. If that is lacking, I think it would be understandable if her development is a little behind. In my non-medico very humble opinion, you should avoid talking baby talk to her. Don't dumb things down for her when it can be avoided. There are occaisions, for ex. if she is pointing at an object and basically grunting, you may want to say the object's name clearly and slowly a few times to see if she can repeat it or make a similar noise. Other than moments like that when you are spcifically trying to teach her a word for an object, talk to her in a normal conversational tone. My thinking is if you talk baby talk to a kid most of the time that is what they learn, baby talk. Unless they have some issue preventing normal development they will learn to talk better if you talk to them in a normal conversational tone, with age appropriate content of course.

Actually the standard for intervention is two word phrases by 24 months (there can be other red flags for intervention, of course, I'm strictly referring to the production of two word phrases). I recently checked this was still the case with a well-regarded speech therapist in our area (my older son was getting some articulation therapy, and so I had the chance to ask as my twins were approaching 24 months.)

I would just keep an eye on the speech, but there has to be much more going on than a speech delay for a child to be on the spectrum. Sometimes it is really hard to tell until the child is at least 2 yrs old. I knew something was going on at 1 yr of age with my son, but I was his mom and I was with him 24/7. Until he was 2 yrs old, there were some days that I thought he did fit the criteria for autism and then other days that I felt that he didn't. It didn't really become real clear until he was 2 1/2 yrs old when he became obsessed with car makes and models, and would not go anywhere near other kids. Lots of toddlers have odd little traits that seem autistic, but over time, the whole picture will become more clear. In the meantime, it certainly cannot hurt to sit and show her objects and help her to pronounce the names of things, and to sing to her and to play little interactive games like peekaboo with her.

Do either of her parents show any concern over her development? If not, I would definitely tread lightly with them in approaching the subject of whether their daughter is on the spectrum.

Oh yeah....I do that a lot...I perpetually tell her what objects are....and speak slowly and deliberately about different things...sometimes we use babytalk and we do a lot of sing songy stuff....much of the baby talk...singsong stuff focuses on getting her to use different vowels and such....but a lot of times I speak to her in very deliberate and enunciated sentences....There are words that I don't expect her to know how to pronounce..but I try to get her to at least get an abbreviated term for it....ukulele for example.....I try to get her to at least identify some sound with it that she Could say....like Oo-Kee.....

I got her saying Ssssss today...which I had not noticed her doing before....so we were both going Ssssss......Ssssssss..........I still can't get her to say "Hat" but She actually did try to say Sombrero.....(because I have a red sombrero that she likes to play with).....after that she was saying Ssssss......a lot...

At least she is interested in music. I was digitally recording songs and then playing them back to her for a while...and that got her interest.....We were all playing instruments and she was really happy while that was going on....

Also when I carry her around while I try to do stuff, I tell her every step of what I am doing...Open the door...close the door....etc etc.....

I am kinda worn out from watching her today..it was non-stop....there is no leaving her alone for a second....she was napping when she arrived and did not nap again for the several hours that I spent with her.....She also grabbed my nose and dug her claws into it rather fiercely tore at the mucus membrane inside my nose....I tried to tactfully tell her that she hurt me....and such and gave her time out....where I put away all the musical instruments and only let her have a plush lion instead.....and tried to make her understand that she shouldn't do that and it hurt me....and then I tried reading to her....(she does not like that)....I tried doing visual alphabet drills with her....and she was not interested.....she is mainly satisfied by close contact and constant attention......and music music music......

I am sure she is just fine...but any time I am in contact with her...I am in "teacher" mode sorta...just to errr on the safe side. When she is hand flapping, it means that she wants something that she can't communicate......she did it today because she was hungry.....

It is interesting how watching one kid can be more draining that working with several kids at once. Among other kids she sorta needs to learn boundaries a bit, but she is generally friendly......she IS just a baby after all...She isn't having any sort of "structure" drilled into her yet that I know of....like the Montessori kids of the same age that I used to work with...who were rigorously taught boundaries and structure and the art of following directions and such....

http://youtu.be/7Iau0gdqQBE
Here she is since my last bit of posting. She still has a very limited vocabulary ...still won't say hat..only two syllable words are baba...she is playing with her favorite ukulele of mine..the flea...i don't get along with her mom..she calls me awful names..am not fond of her dada very much at all right now..tho am financially dependent on him....

She is still very clingy...will not say many words..mimics mouth sounds...no understanding of any sort of communication...She hand-flaps more frequently..she loves to hit and hit and hit me...her new phase..I try to say no..don't hit...it does not register...it is kinda a stim I think....she hits my face over and over...cause she is excited to see me...after I get her to calm down...she zeros in on staring at my necklaces....ah well it is none of my beeswax..I am increasingly frustrated with her parents...and am frankly exhausted...I do not want to deprive a child of someone who she is dependent on for comfort....but Her mom HATES me and I am furious with her dad...quite fed up...

Last edited by poopylungstuffing on 29 Apr 2012, 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I like the standard timeline for speech that someone posted. Babies usually have one criteria developmentally that they focus on. The baby might not feel the need to speak right now. I think that it would be more important that she understands what you are saying than what she can say. For example, my younger sister started talking a little later but if we said no she knew what it meant. Most of the stuff that we asked she seemed to understand perfectly. (I have helped at a daycare a lot so I know a good deal about little kids)

I am not sure how much she is supposed to understand, but she seems to understand very little. She does not babble other than repetitive phrases..but mimics my mouth sounds...limited connection between words and objects. I have worked with kids her age also...and perhaps it was the structured environment, but they seemed much more able to understand stuff...