To punish or not punish for academic issues

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I was just reading a bunch of articles on kids with learning disabilities. I'm confused as to when its appropriate to punish kids for academic problems.
Im also finding it hard to figure out if the issues are normal teen problems (i.e. this is not important, Im not doing it) vs. learning/organizational problems (i.e. im overwhelmed, so I didn't turn in my assignment).
I have found when I punish my son for his academic issues, he shuts down and won't do anything or try anymore. For example, he was getting an F in math. No video games or computer until the grade started to come up. He just shut down, wouldn't do any math at all.

If I ask him about things, he opens up to me and tells me.. oh yeah, I just forgot to turn it in, or well I couldn't remember where I put that, or I really had a hard time with that assignment and didn't finish it because it was frustrating. We then can work on ways he can get those issues resolved i.e. developing a homework folder, emailing teachers about certain assignments to be turned in, backup plans, trying different organizational methods, etc. He gets excited and is more motivated to work.

What have your experiences been in this regard?

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Dyscalculia

Executive dysfunction - Socio-cultural implications

It's difficult to say. Maybe he has specific problems in some areas, but you need to find out exactly what the problem is and come up with a logical solution to it.

I had to create a checklist of everything I had to pack the night before, and in the morning I would go around packing and checking off things as I went, otherwise I would forget something. Everything had to be written down in my school diary because my short term memory was little to none. I had to prioritise which assignments and homework to do in which order, otherwise I would get overwhelmed just thinking about it. I used to complete homework and assignments in class or in free periods (e.g. I would be in English class, finish my english work for the lesson, move on to my art homework from last period and then spend the rest of the lesson drawing or reading).

I know personally that during high school, many things were not interesting to me which would result in me completing the work quickly and then being bored brainless for the rest of the time.

I used to struggle particularly when a question or assignment was not clear or specific enough (which was often), because there were too many directions it could go in and too may things to write in which case I could not organise and express them properly while keeping under the word limit, which would result with me being completely stuck and giving up.

It took my guardian sitting down with me and literally writing out a plan - step by step, of exactly how to complete and assignment, how to prioritise (only use the best 1-3 or 1-6 points in HS), which information to use and which to discard, how much depth to go into, when to skip over information and when not to. Exactly how to write a paragraph, how to check for errors etc. I do mean, down to ridiculous details.

Once I had the plan, I was fine. Without a plan, I would just not hand it in because I couldn't do it. The one time I went way overboard and wrote absolutely everything I was thinking, it resulted in me being accused of cheating and send to the principals office because "this paper could not possibly have been written by a 15 year old girl, this paper is post-university level".

You need to talk to him and find out what are issues and what is just him slacking off. I did have issues but I also slacked off a lot since I was never required to study out of school either.

I feel like we've tried everything, and I can say that punishing was not particularly effective.

However, the basic premise of if you can't do what you're supposed to do, you can't do what you want to do, works. We just don't call it punishment.

For my 12 year old, it's very simple - first this (school responsibilities) then that (whatever you want to do). We need to do this very simply. It does not work adding time off, because then the transition is brutal. Keeping in mind we homeschool, so school is all at once - there's no coming home and then having more to do. That was always a nightmare for my son.

For my older guy - I will occasionally punish when I find him totally slacking, then he just needs more "home time" and I will collect the cords to his various electronics, until he brings the grades up. Does lack of motivation count as a learning disability? I swear - this guy is so bright, but he can be a slacker!

double post...

I think that punishment for failure to learn or get whatever grade is deeply wrong, it reminds me of the case of Reginald Cancellor who was beaten to death by a wicked school teacher back in 1860 on the south coast of England.

However if the student is being lazy or otherwise misbehaving then a punishment is quite reasonable but I would suggest that you do not use a candle stick like Thomas Hopley used. I think that the removal of all electronic time wasters (opps I mean things like video games) is quite a reasonable one.

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Diagnosed under the DSM5 rules with autism spectrum disorder, under DSM4 psychologist said would have been AS (299.80) but I suspect that I am somewhere between 299.80 and 299.00 (Autism) under DSM4.

For my kids, there is nothing that they can't do. For instance, we provide my youngest 15 hours of 1:1 help to get anything he needs done, done. He can always finish. BUT - if he needs a bunch of breaks, or needs to not work for a while, that's totally fine with me, but he needs to finish the assignment before he can go on his x-box.

Our requirements are pretty low, I figure they will blame us for not teaching them to work harder

That said, he knows his routine, and finishes his work so he can spend the rest of the day on you tube and x-box. I can't remember the last time he didn't have a full afternoon to do as he wished. Compared to kids in regular school - he has it made! Like I said, I worry that he will be angry that we didn't help him get a better work ethic, but whatever - I have to pick my battles.

As usual, I'm with Kailuamom, and that system applies to pretty much everything: work first, then reward. With food, it's eat your meal first, then you can have seconds of the part you liked (we keep dessert out of this system - we eat it separately well after dinner is over and it isn't a part of any reward system.) If you don't want to eat what you're served (within reason, I usually accept an honest effort over plate-cleaning,) fine, but no seconds. Same with homework, household chores, getting up in the morning. We tend to phrase it as "you earned X because you did Y" rather than "you don't get X because you didn't do Y."

That being said, grades are not something I will worry about until they actually affect DS's future, it's whether or not he's actually doing the work (and we will make him do homework over if we feel he isn't making his best effort.) We also work closely with the school to make sure he understands what he's supposed to do, understands the lessons, and is able to keep track of stuff - I do frequently "bail him out" by bringing things from home if he forgets something because it's not his fault.

One measure of executive function disability: does your child forget things he wants to remember? I can see how a child might still have executive function problems if they only forget things they aren't motivated about, but that is a certain indicator that it's a problem that needs to be addressed both at school and at home.

lol keep in mind though in general I was only allowed an hour and a half of t.v...me and my two siblings each got to pick a show, we did not even have a computer till I was 11 and then it was kind of off and on but when we did have one we where allowed a 45 minutes and when we where a bit older we had a Xbox which was limited to then that stopped working.

So my free time was spent drawing, listening to music, reading for the most part, and I didn't really hang out with friends since I didn't have any. My mom could not very well ground me from reading or drawing.

First of all, you need to figure out why he's getting an f in math. The grade is usually a function of homework, tests, in class assignments, etc weighted in a specific way. You need to have a conference with the teacher to find out exactly what the grades in these specific areas are. Is he good at in class assignments but not doing his homework? Is he doing poorly across the board? Is he testing poorly? Once you know what the issues are you can address them specifically...if he isn't turning in his homework then you need to structure his afternoons where he has mandatory time to work on it (after some free time/decompression occurs). If he is testing poorly maybe they need to give him some supports in that area. If it is across the board then they need to address this at the school with some math tutoring or additional teaching. So basically, no, you don't punish him, you help him solve the academic problem. This is just my opinion.

During middle school, we made a "grading contract." If his grades fell below a certain level, he lost privileges as outlined in the contract. Now that he's in high school, it's much simpler: he must maintain a 2.0 GPA and absolutely no "F's" or he's grounded. He does just fine. Gets some B's here and D's there, but has only been grounded once during the school year.

I found that my son's grades tended to suffer due to developmental issues out of his control. The organizational requirements on kids today are ridiculous; it would stress me out; and many kids are simply not ready for it. The number 1 reason for low grades in otherwise capable kids is the inability to stay organized and on top on the overwhelming number of pieces of paper that have to get turned in. Zeros are a huge, huge killer to grades; it takes a lot of A's on tests to offset the effect of one lost piece of homework paper.

For us, supporting our son in those skills helped more than any threats ever could have. We worked with him, we coaxed him, we made it fun. We helped him track assignments, experimented with different organization and filing systems, and checked school postings. Eventually he caught up developmentally and stopped needing our help.

I saw how fast it took all the wind out of his sails when he got the first progress report with an F on it. He would have given up if we hadn't met with the teachers, seen what the issues were, and told him we would help him with it. I'm not joking, he was so frustrated he wanted to give up. It seemed hopeless to him, he thought the rubrics were messed up, and he didn't believe he could do better (he was, after all, acing tests and knew the material).

He is now a straight A student that we don't have to coax, prod or assist in any way. With our help, he learned how to survive in the system.

The thing I can see happening and I suspect it often does with these kids - is he doesn't know why or probably can't verbalise why he is failing math or why he can't do the work. He can't tell you in most cases, you're going to have to work it out for yourself.