Lack ot Intrinsic motivation and ZERO attention span.

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How do you handle a lack of motivation and zero attention span on your child's part ?

Ever since his ABA began, DS has been participating (albeit reluctantly) in the activities but his lack of interest & motivation is plain as the nose on my face for all to see. He will play with you for as long as you engage him. Turn your back for a second, leaving him amongst a HUGE pile of toys, and turn back again, and he is right in his favorite corner, stimming on a toy to glory.

This worries me. I am having a hard time engaging him 24/7, and it scares me that this kid cannot be left alone for a SECOND without him beginning to stim. It isn't that I don't want him to stim - he is going to stim, he is autistic, after all - but I would ideally like him to at least play with the toys functionally on his own for about 60 seconds before moving them back and forth rapidly in front of his eyes. Is this too much to ask for ?

Do you have any suggestions for me on how to build his motivation and his attention span ? We play with the same set of toys for a month, before moving on to a different set, so it is not as if he does not know how to play with these toys. Rather, it is as if he prefers to visually stim on the toys, instead, or stare out the window and stim at the leaves on our big tree blowing in the wind, or watch the cars drive by intently to the point of forgetting all else.

Help ! Wll this get better as he gets older and develops language ?

Last edited by HisMom on 30 Oct 2012, 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Are these "toys" learning aides that are supposed to be used a certain way? I don't see why you are so upset about what he is doing with them. As long as he isn't bashing people over the head with them, there is no "right" way to play with toys. Also, if you're playing with one set of toys for a whole month, in a way he doesn't find appealing – maybe he's just getting bored?

You won't be able to successfully engage anybody 24/7, autistic or not. Maybe you are spending too much time with him. Also, stimming with the toys takes attention, so that is not an example of zero attention span.

My son plays with toys in his own way and always had. I do not see that it is a problem. Just because something is on the checklist on the diagnostic list for autism, does not intrinsically make it a problem. Sometimes it is just an indicator, and that is all.

If he is doing a lot of ABA, and he finds it stressful or unpleasant (boring), that might be increasing his stim times. They do it to relax, often times.

Not all, but some are instructional in nature. Also, we have a few "toys" that are bulky (to put it lightly). He takes even these hugeeeee monsters close to his face and runs them by his eyes at top speed, screaming loudly as he does so, for an accompanying verbal stim.

I do NOT have a problem with him stimming at home. He is 3 and he needs a break because he spends long hours in therapy. Also, I was advised via pm by one of the posters here to let him be as this stimming will eventually be replaced with less intrusive / awkward behaviors as he matures.

I am, actually, more worried because this has become an overwhelming habit at school, and creates problems for him in that environment. So, I am looking to see how to keep him from doing this extensively at home so he does this less and less frequently at school, too. His teacher says the combination of the visual + verbal stim has disastrous results in the classroom. It sets off his class, supposedly, with half of them banging their heads or rolling on the ground or having a terrible meltdown themselves, in response to his behaviors (the ear - piercing screams). This has marked him as a "trouble maker" in the class.

This hurts me. It worries me about his ability to eventually - some day - be mainstreamed, So, I am trying to work on this at home. I do join in the stimming sometimes - as recommended by Son Rise - but his behaviors seem to have become more intense.

I am at my wit's end.

Letting him stim at home may take the edge off, and he might require it less at school. If he is stimming a lot at school, he may need more down time. School + hours of therapy = stress, and I think he is trying to, you know, release the pressure. He might need a designated stim time, or something.

YMMV, but I have found that less stress generally equals less stimming. Do you have a sensory box with different things in it (textures, smells, visual doodads etc.) that he can take sensory breaks with?

Stimming is a very individual thing, and it changes over time as the child integrates sensory stimuli and it varies with stress etc. Sometimes they seek stimuli , sometimes they avoid it. It varies with the stim and the day, sometimes. One day they can seek the same stim they avoided and switch back again. It takes trial and error to get a feel for it.

Does your child get OT at school? They may be able to help you get a better feel for your child's specific current sensory requirements.

To start with, how old is he? If he has AS I think the time he spends stimming will reduce as he grows up. Maybe you need to try with different toys/games. If I wanted to let my child playing unsupervised and without stimming when she was younger, I only had a set of things I knew would work: painting (finger painting), play dough, water colors, markers, making bubbles. She would engage in those activities longer and I knew if I needed to leave her for about 15 minutes without supervision, those would work. All the other activities would lead to stimming. So maybe you should try different things, not only toys or educative toys, but different things, and see how he reacts. It must be things he loves. But yes, he will still need his stimming time in order to handle stress. According to my daughter's therapist, you should try to make him stay "connected" (interacting, not stimming), as long as you can every day. That will help them get used to "stay out" (connected, not stimming). Our children are incredibly slow getting used to new things or things they do not want to get used to, so you will have to be extremely perseverant. To my daughter it would take about 3 to 5 years learning a new ablity, so be patient. By the way, my daughter is 12 now and she does not stim anymore, just when she is bored, which means we try to keep her busy or engaged in activities she likes as much as possible.

Haven't read all the responses yet, so sorry if I am repeating.

This first bit is hard for me to word correctly, because I remember it irritating me when my daughter was 3. But the truth is, your son is just 3 years old. His system is still maturing and a lot of this will improve simply through passage of time.

Please do be aware, however, that in many kids, increased stimming is a sign of increased stress. He is trying to find a way to regulate his own internal state of being and blocking this may only serve to make things worse. There is no reason, IMHO, for you to feel you need to engage him 24/7, or to prevent his stimming. It is possible he needs to be left alone to stim. It sounds to me like when you are asking him to do something else, he does so, and then goes back to stimming when he is finished with whatever your demands are. I want to encourage you to consider the possibility that this might be ok. Rather than trying to prevent him from stimming on "his own time," perhaps slowly build up the amount of time you spend with him, then just let him do what he wants to do on "his time."

Lots of kids--even NT ones--have poor attention spans when they are 3. The reality is, though, that they have excellent attention spans for the things they want to attend to, just poor attention spans for the things we want them to attend to. I feel for you because at 3, my son had me in tears on a daily basis. He was like the energizer bunny on speed. I could not redirect him or get him to do anything. He did improve over time and if I could go back and give myself a piece of advice, it would have been "This will pass. Try not to worry so much." Be patient and loving (not saying that you aren't) because that is what your son will remember.

About the visual stimming - he does it because he likes it and because, quite frankly, it feels good. I know, I used to do it when I was little. It could be that he's doing it more because he's stressed - same way adults might smoke or drink more due to stress. I hope this makes sense. I have no formal diagnosis of anything but of course 30 years ago they weren't diagnosing this sort of thing. I for the most part grew out of the visual stimming around first-second grade.

You can try to limit the places he does the loud, vocal stim, squealing etc... although in my experience it hasn't worked... but it could work, if he understands in time and is able to control that impulse then it should work. My son stims from when he gets up until he sleeps, he is constantly in movement and/or vocally stimming (way more movement than noise). I agree, some of it seems to be stress related, but for him the vast majority is, I think, to reduce stress. It calms him, it gives him sensory input where he needs it so that he can do other things. He stims whilst doing everything, it is impossible for him to be still for more than a minute. If you are unable to "reach" your son whilst stimming, and this is happening all the time, so you can't do anything with him, that is a problem... but if he's using it to relax, or to help focus... then for now that seems OK.
Down the track will it hinder his chance to be mainstreamed? Possibly? My son isn't... but not because he stims. I have always had the loudest kid in the class too, but his issues are as valid as the next kid. I will say that my son has gotten a little quieter over the years, a little. If your son is causing stress by being loud, you needn't feel guilt over it... his behaviours are not able to be controlled by him at this point. You can try to talk to him about "quiet" and "calm", pictures to support, praise when he is quieter and .... hope it works. At the same time, the other children in the class need to be supported whilst he tries to learn this, and if he doesn't the school need to work out the best approach to take... do they need to separate the quieter, noise sensitive ones from the louder, hyposensitive ones?
As for playing with toys functionally, you can't make him like to play with something in the way it was intended, rather than his own preferred way. It is great you are showing him the way they were designed to be used and if he can do that, that is fantastic... but if he prefers his way of playing with/ exploring that toy then that is what he will go back to when no-one is requiring him to do it the other way. I would too.
I agree with "In this together" that this will pass, he will change and grow and you will too. Everything is going to be OK... even if it ends up as your "worst case scenario" it will be OK, if you can truly start to believe this it will help enormously. Just my opinion.

In reading your response, I'm wondering if this is about the school environment and not about stimming. I'm a little concerned about the teacher's response to you that the stim "sets off the rest of the class."

Let's put it this way: imagine your son had some other kind of disability - for the sake of argument, that he was blind. Let's say he handled the exhaustion and stress of feeling his way around a classroom full of disabled kids by sitting down suddenly so he can orient himself on the floor and know where he is for a minute.

How would you feel if the teacher in this situation said "He sits down right in the middle of the floor, and makes all the other kids trip!" Doesn't sound like a solution-minded response to me.

Maybe your son needs a little time to himself during classtime, where he can calm himself in whatever way is reasonable without disrupting the class? Do they have a "quiet room" in the school? (Be a bit wary - schools should make sure any child in a "quiet room" has an adult with them or just outside, and the room should be an actual room you can visit.) Does your child have an aide in this classroom who could take him out?

I guess the point I'm trying to make: your son is where he is. He will eventually develop and grow (at his own pace,) but if the school isn't willing to meet him where he is, he's going to struggle to succeed. We don't expect NT kids to start reading just because we hand them a book, and we can't expect him to be aware of how his self-calming behaviors affect others if he doesn't have the tools to do that.

Momsparky, the school has been a part of the problem from the beginning, not part of the solution. I just am waiting to see his first progress report before making any big decisions (such as fleeing the district).

Miss-understood, they run two intensive classes for kids on the spectrum. I, for the life of me, don't have a clue why they won't have the hyposensitive ones in one room and the hypersensitive ones in the other...

Maybe someone somewhere will have a DUH moment ....someday.

Are you in the US? If it's possible (no matter where you are) call a meeting and find an advocate to come with you, somebody who specializes in autism and can explain your child's rights. I am guessing they don't quite understand that they are required to create an environment that works for your son, not the other way around. You can start by letting them know that you view prolonged stimming as a measure of your child's level of discomfort in the classroom, and ask what they're going to do about that?

Autism Speaks has a state-by-state listing of service organizations that may be able to help you, or your current service provider may do that for a small fee; you can check the Autism society in your country, or the Department of Human Services in the area where you live.

If you wind up having to go elsewhere for school, they should cover your costs.

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You have stated some things and some of the things you have stated I do not grasp. The reason is they come across to me as inconsistent. In part 1 you state your child has zero attention span but yet at the end of part 2 you state he stims on a particular toy to glory. If he stims on a toy, moves other toys back and forth rapidly in front of his eyes like you state on part 3 then how does your child have zero attention span????

He does need to learn tha he needs to get his school work done and making sure he is organized from school. He will need professional help for executive functioning. Yes, your child does needs to learn certain social and pragmatic skills. If it has no impact on his functioning, learning and doing well in school then why are you making a big deal over how your child uses a toy? To me, unless it is impacting his schooling, well-being, happiness and every day care for himself then I do not see what the big deal is. Why is there a correct way to use a toy. I don't grasp the logic of this. It's just a toy and a set of toys. To me with exceptions, you're making a big deal of nothing in my humble opinion.

I should have clarified that it was ZERO attention span for NON-PREFERRED activities !



It does impact his learning. We are currently working on cause and effect toys and his inability to play with these toys functionally defeats the purpose of using them. Yes, he can play with toys any way he chooses, but stimming on it exclusively and refusing to play functionally means that he does not get concepts that are best taught using these toys.

Also, the fact that he has ZERO attention span for non-preferred activities but extensive attention to stimming means that he does not learn - getting him to focus leaves us exhausted and discouraged. Since he is young, we would like for him to UNDERSTAND how things work - once he does this and gets that there is a functional way to play with and learn from a toy, he can stim on it as long as he pleases.

I agree now that you clarified.

Will he watch you play with the toys "correctly" so he can learn the cause and effect or will he let you guide his hands to do what the toys will do? This might help segue him, or at least make you feel like you are accomplishing something. I know it is not the same as "spontaneous play," but it may be that if you can get him to watch you it might help him understand what is expected. There might be some benefit to that. Although I have certain doubts as illustrated below. The spontaneous play takes a light to go off, in their heads, I think. That said he will at least know what do when the light does come on. You could take him into the toy section and see if any of the toys are sufficiently visually stimulating to where he will work on cause and effect. ie. You might find something with enough flashy lights that trigger when you press a button, to where he might be motivated to press said buttons.

We had that issue with pretend play. He would look at me like I was nuts when I would pretend feed his stuffed animals. When he was 2, The nurse at his pediatrician's office drove me crazy with that, as though getting him to do it by rote would magically make him not autistic or something. He still did not willingly do pretend play. He would occasionally mimic me, when prompted, but you could tell it was for me, and not because it made sense to him. Once he started doing it spontaneously (much later, and probably not as a result of me pestering him) you could really tell what they meant by pretend play. It was way later then peers, and mega scripted but, hey...

His other play was always unusual, too. He would play with electronic learning devices and answer incorrectly on purpose because he like the "wrong" sounds better than the sounds the thing made when you got the right answer. It was pretty cute.

This was kind of a long way to say that while you should still work on these things, I would try not to get too bogged down in it. A lot of working with autistic children is meeting them where they are.