Acting out in school. Help?

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Eldest has always done well at school. He's behaved better there than he has at home. Third grade has been no exception...until now.

He's had a problem all year with calling out in class. His teacher, who is wonderful, has been exasperated by this, but she understands him and she deals with it. He's her favorite student, and he's been at the top of his class all year. Yesterday, though, he kept getting up and leaving his desk, going out in the hallway. He did it once, got a warning. Did it a second time, got a pink slip...which is some sort of disciplinary thing.

I talked to her this morning, with him present. He's apparently been very defiant lately, refusing to do his writing work in class.

Which he hates; writing is hard for him. But again, she knows this and she makes allowances for him.

But no. He chose to get Zeros on the assignments instead. I told him that this wasn't acceptable, that he needs to listen to his teacher, that he needs to follow instructions and pay attention to what he's told. If there were more problems, I told him, we'd have to take away his Pokemon game for a while. And he's LOVES that game. Chastened, he was very apologetic and said that he would.

This morning, he tells me this. This afternoon, during class, his teacher calls me. He's being openly defiant again. Getting up during an important test and going to another student's desk, ignoring instructions...getting a 73% on this test, from the kid who is capable of much, much better.

Even her calling me had no effect on his behavior. I talked to him, but between a bad connection and his mumbling, I couldn't get much sense out of him. Why is he doing this? Why won't he listen? "I don't know. I can't help it!"

I don't know what to do. This outright defiance of his teacher is very new, only the past few weeks. There's been no changes or shifts at home; he's been more Pokemon-obsessed than usual, but that's because he got a new game for Christmas. We're seeing the developmental pediatrician for an evaluation until next month...and that's after waiting six months for an appointment.

He's diagnosed as high-functioning ASD. I'm starting to wonder if ADHD is involved as well. But we can't afford to take him to a therapist -- nobody in our area who works with kids, let alone special-needs kids, takes insurance. I am completely at a loss here. I want to do what's best for him, I want to help him, but he can't even explain why he's doing these things.

Any ideas? Insights? We're going to have a talk tonight; calm and reasoning, without yelling. But I don't even know where to start with him.

People say that 3rd grade is especially difficult for ASD kids; there is a leap in developmental expectations that ASD kids may not be caught up with. I think I would start by going through his day and figuring out everything that seems to be expected of him. He may not understand some of those expectations, or he may not feel capable of meeting them, but be unable to recognize that in himself. Focus on the independence and self-management expectations.

I would recommend the website, http://www.livesinthebalance.org/

Dr Greene's Collaborative Problem Solving technique may provide you with a means to open the lines of communication. I think sometimes that the line of questioning we use with kids, because we really, really want to understand what is going on with them, backfires and all we get are shoulder shrugs and statements like, "I don't know." It takes some time for us and I often only get through the part he calls "The Empathy Step" where the adult is trying to allow the child to articulate his or her concerns. Its like detective work but if I give it enough time I usually hear something from DS that gives me more insight into why he is doing or not doing something.

We had a fairly good talk last night. I *think* he got it, on a level that he didn't before.

He got up in the middle of the test so that he could help a friend; he'd been told the rules (no talking, no getting out of your seat, etc.) but his friend needed help, so.... I told him that's considered cheating, and he just broke down in tears -- "I;m a big fat cheaterpants!"

*sigh*

His teacher feels that part of the problem is that he knows how much she really likes him, so he's doing some limit testing. Appropriate for a younger kid, but considering his emotional delays? Not too surprising, I suppose.

We've tried two new things: I sent him in with a stress ball, something that he can mess with when he's feeling overwhelmed. This could easily backfire, as the only one I could find was bouncy and would make a great toy...but today, at least, it worked. I'm going to keep an eye out for one of those cloth backs, filled with sand. That's harder to play with in a disruptive way.

And we've started a marble jar for him. 20 days without incident -- not in a row, necessarily -- and he gets a treat of some sort. This has his interest, although I still need to find an actual jar.

Today was a good day. I'm hoping for more of those.

I think your jar idea is excellent. When we do incentive programs, I have found it to be very important to not require consecutive achievement as my son is apt to have an off day, and it lets him move on the next day fresh without feeling like he is starting over and it is too hard. It is so important that goals be achievable.

My son is doing some teacher testing at school right now (I think) and you reminded me of that particular tool. Usually, I use it for summer non-school related things, because I don't necessarily get as much info as I would like, but I think I may be able to adapt this in a loose way.

Are you sure 20 days is short enough to be motivating? For my DS7, we would have to make it 5 days or he would give up. The prizes would be scaled smaller, of course.

3rd grade was where our difficulties with pragmatics came to a head; we didn't get those diagnosed until much later - but DS had been doing pretty well socially up until that point and then everything suddenly fell apart. It was one of our worst years ever, and we had a fantastic teacher who really did everything imaginable to help.

Just a heads-up, if his pragmatic speech hasn't been tested/treated- see if that's being addressed appropriately. The timing mentioned by DW a Mom is largely a language development leap NT kids make at this age. DS just didn't, but it came out sideways in all kinds of ways - OCD-like tics, explosive behavior at home, school refusal, refusal to do work, etc. Here are the expectations he's working under (it starts at the end of 2nd grade, the next level is the end of 3rd grade) http://www.asha.org/public/speech/devel ... dgrade.htm

I second the notion of keeping motivators very short (we actually do them daily these days; he "earns" all his privileges) and I think ASDMommyASDkid has a very good point about finding a way to deal with off days (an area where we tended to fail as parents at that age.)

We haven't ironed out the details on the reward system yet; we keep hitting family crises that are distracting us from focusing on the little things.

( Last night, our kitchen sink developed a huge leak. Now we need to find a few hundred dollars somewhere. It's a joy, it is.)

Thank you for this. I'd never even HEARD of Pragmatic Speech issues before, and looking it over? It fits scarily well.

And it goes right to the root of my own problems...I feel so completely, utterly out of my depth in this situation. I don't know what "normal", what's appropriate, or what kind of help he really needs. The very good news is that my mother-in-law has offered, spontaneously, to pay for Eldest to see a therapist. The very idea of a professional perspective is such a huge relief that my mother--in-law's offer left me on the verge of tears.

We had him signed up for a Social Skills class held by a local treatment center. Every Tuesday night for two months; it would have been perfect. And after going through the application process and all the appropriate hoops, with the six months of waiting for a space to be found for him? We get a call two days before the class starts, telling us that they don't take our insurance.

I have no idea what to look for in a therapist for ASD kids, mind. I need to start some research, see who's in our area, figure out how and when I can take off time from work to accomidate this.

So sorry this is tough. Pragmatics and social skills go together (and, yes, I've got a huge deficit, too - what helped ME was a degree in theater - essentially "script analysis" is the same as pragmatic speech therapy.)

I would first ask the school to test for pragmatics. If you can get in-school speech therapy where they kind of observe during recess interacting with NT kids and then help him break down what happened, that is ideal - but the truth is, that rarely happens - more often, you get a social skills class headed by a social worker and a speech therapist with a group of kids who are all struggling with the same issues. That's better than nothing - but do insist on the speech therapist part of it if they say you qualify.

Most licensed speech therapists can test for pragmatics and offer therapy. Otherwise, look for specialists in developmental disorders, which are pediatric neurologists or developmental pediatricians - they should be able to both diagnose, break down the diagnosis into specific issues that pertain to your child - and refer you to services.

Make sure other than the speech therapist, that whoever you see specializes in developmental delays (preferably specifically autism and not other developmental delays,) people who don't specialize in it tend to view behavioral issues through the lens of interpersonal relationship problems - we spent YEARS wasting time with that approach (not to say we didn't learn a thing or two, but it's a bit like hiring someone to paint walls that are falling down.)