More compulsive lying about school work

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Hello , My 11 yr old aspie/adhd combined kido, is still getting into trouble at school. His teacher assistant who helps him with organization, has emailed me at least once a day over the last 5-6 school days. Ds is lying to get out of every assignment but math. He also is getting caught repeatedly playing games in school on his ipad (mostly mine craft) when he is supposed to be working on school work. The same goes for at home when he is supposed to be doing homework, unless I am able to literally sit over his shoulder and watch him work. He tells his helper one thing like I dont know where the work is, or I turned it in already, and he tells me the opposite. Non stop compulsive lying about assignments. He has lost the privilege of using his ipad for any kind of free time, along with not being able to use any kind of technology in the school for 3 days. He has a 3 point infraction, and a lunch detention, again. The next time it will be for 5 days. I talked to him about the importance of being honest, damaging his reputation now, and when he is grown. It does not seem to faze him whatsoever. He has lost screen time privileges at home until he is caught up on all school work. I am at a loss for what to do about his compulsive lying. His learning assistant wants to arrange a meeting with the rest of his team, and myself next week to try and come up with ideas on how to get him to quit lying and do his work. I am all for this, but I am not sure what we can do for him short of treating him like he is in k5. I hate the idea of signing off on every single assignment between myself and his teachers at the middle school. I will do it if thats what it takes, but I feel like ds should be able to control himself and stop the lying. I told him yes you are on medication for calming your nerves, and some impulsiveness but there is no miracle pill that will do all the work for you, its a choice you must make on your own to do the right thing or not. He definitely understands if he can lie for a day or two there is a reward of not doing the work for a short time. When he gets busted he has punishments at home and at school, loss of screen time ect.... But I try to keep telling him he is the only one who can make the right choice we cannot do it for him. But again and again he falls into the trap of lying to get out of work for awhile. Now we wiped out all the games and youtube on his ipad so when he gets it back those will no longer be options for him for awhile. He will have to earn playing games on the weekend and he can use the family lap top and wii ect... if his school work is kept up and he is honest. I looked through some of the iep ideas in this forum, but really I didn't feel like many of them applied to us and this situation. Im so nervous myself about the meeting, I wish I had more ideas to offer, but Im at a loss. I want to offer him rewards for doing the right thing, but he keeps messing up and getting things take away before we have the chance to reward him for doing the right things. I just hate the idea of taking things that tempt him by force, leaving him no choice. I guess this is more of a venting rant than anything else sorry for that. Im just so frustrated right now, as im sure my ds is too somehow. Im feeling very guilty treating him younger than he is, because he cannot control what tempts him, and will not tell the truth. I just hope we make some progress with this upcoming meeting about how to help him.

In the midst of getting kiddos to bed, so must be brief (hold the laughter, those of you who know me).

First, I feel your pain. I am often in a similar place with my 11 y/o son.

But I would like to challenge you to see this differently because it might help you find a solution quicker. Perhaps not seeing it in terms of lying, but in terms of understanding that he so desperately wants to avoid something that being dishonest is the lesser of two evils.

Can you lock him out of Minecraft during school hours? I don't have an ipad so I don't know how that works.

Minecraft is now off his ipad. I would like to think down the road with some very strict rules he can get it back. I do not know what he is trying to avoid, I am trying very hard to understand that, because he is a good kid, I dont think he would just avoid work in general just cause. Well not 100% of the time anyways lol. He has a team of people trying to help him here, and we will brainstorm together and see what we can come up with. I really don't think he is lying just because he can. Although it may look like that at times, he knows he is going to get in trouble for lying and he obviously does not enjoy that part of it. Im just praying to God for patience and to try and see whats really going on here and how his teachers and I can help him the most. My mind is just jumbled up in a ball of nerves and frustration about it all at the moment.

If it is work, in general, it might be the siren call of special interests in his head distracting him from his work, and saying he did it to get to them faster. We have that issue (not the lying, but complaining about hw being boring and wanting only to do his fun special interest stuff) It is hard to get kids to care about doing unpleasant or even less interesting work.

I would just plug on with incentives and disincentives and explaining to him why it is important you you can try to build up his INTERNAL motivation system. I wish I had better answers. We have similar issues here with our 7 yr old. It is hard for me to relate to because I was always very internally motivated and cared about my hw more than my mom did. I have to remind myself he is different in that way, and just keep trying.

I don't know if this helps, but it's at least a different way to look at it. When I was a kid, I would sometimes give the answer that I thought was desired, with grand plans of going back and "fixing" the fact that I just lied. Unfortunately, due to numerous executive functioning problems, I often did not get back to the "fixing" part.

Who am I kidding? I am still prone to doing this. This is why credit cards are a bad idea.

Some things to think about:
1) How does he have access to an iPad, repeatedly, at school? If he's given support, someone isn't monitoring
2) iPads come with a security feature where you can set a password in order to access it. His worker may want to set one
3) iPads also have free/cheap app timers. I use iGameTimer. It shuts down after a set time has expired and requires a password to reactivate it.


Try the passwords.


Have him track his work in his agenda. Have him "check off" each completed assignment. Sign off after he's shown you. Have his worker sign off everytime he hands something in. Keep an open communication so he's aware you're all on the same page. Have a reward system in place for the # of times he gets an adult to sign off. At the end of the week, he earns ___ minutes of iPad.

I review my son's work all the time. Sometimes I have him make corrections. Nothing "kindergarten" about that. We're here to help.


Reverse it. Have him earn play minutes. If he's misusing the iPad when he's suppose to use it for work-related assignments, there are always alternatives (dictionaries, paper/pencil, libraries, etc).


Why? For misusing iPad? He's only behaving in a way that's working because he's not getting the support he needs. Again, a simple password prevents him from using iPad, period. Lunch time has nothing to do with iPad.


That's ASD/ADHD related and not a fault of his own. He is unable to see life apart from the immediate - especially at this age.


Reverse the language. Children are more inclined to work hard to earn something. If he's surrounded by negativity, he'll likely not feel good enough to make a positive change.. and that change is not going to happen, simply by choice. He is struggling with something.


His worker might want to document when he's avoiding his work and see if s/he notices a pattern. You mentioned "except math". Maybe math isn't hard for him so it's a non-issue. If he's avoiding, there's a reason. The aide needs to figure out what that reason is. Sounds like all s/he's doing is giving consequences.


A behaviour is a behaviour. Try not to categorize it into an age-frame because your son is at where he's at. You can always fade out a strategy. Also, it's been said, a child with ADHD is typically 30% in years behind. If he's 11 years old, this rule makes him just under 8 years old.


He has ADHD. He's impulsive. How is he "able" to "control" himself? He's on medication. "Controlling oneself" is a learned behaviour that needs to be taught, and like with anything, it will take time to cement. Lying may resolve itself once the appropriate supports are put in place. Really, he's trying to get out of doing his work for a reason. What's the reason (without the assumptions)?


The 1-2 days is worth it to him, despite the consequence. Children, by default, want to do the right thing. So, again, dig deeper.


If telling him over and over isn't changing the behaviour, then you need to stop repeating yourself. He's not deaf. He understands english.


Why not? This strategy has been successful for him. He will continue doing whatever makes him feel successful and unfortunately, right now, lying is it.


I think this is a good idea as long as it comes with a supportive plan to address the underlying issues. You don't want to set him up to fail and if the right support isn't put in place, he will never be able to earn those games. You will have a bigger issue to deal with then.


An IEP is a general guideline and malleable. You have the right, as a parent, to revise it at any time.


We can bribe a child with a trip to Disneyland but if s/he doesn't have the skills they need to earn it, s/he will never earn the trip.

I agree with this. My instinct reading the first post and the acceleration of the issue is that this is a child that feels he cannot meet expectations and, thus, is no longer willing to try.

He's giving up and checking out. That is what my instincts are telling me.

If my instincts are right, unless you get to the core of his frustration, everything you do will either be a temporary band-aide, or simply ineffective. When someone believes that everything is stacked against them, it becomes one giant, immovable hurdle. Kids don't have the tools or experience to know that they'll eventually find their way past it. They just. give. up.

I truly believe that you need to figure out why he doesn't feel he can meet expectations, and then help him past the hurdles. He may need less work, I don't know. He may not truly understand the role of truth. He may not understand what truth is. He may be addicted to the video game and unable to see why it draws him so. He could be suffering from depression. Millions of possibilities; you'll need your detective hat. But this is the type of behavior I've seen in kids who believe that no matter how hard they try, they cannot accomplish what the people around them want from them. I've seen it more than a few times, and I think you need to very very strongly consider that there is a gap somewhere between what everyone thinks your son can and should do, and what he is actually capable of.

Best of luck figuring it out. It is not easy.

I agree with the above posters - and we do use the "earning" system at home. In fact, we made up a contract which spelled out all our expectations exactly and what he earns for each thing, and had DS sign it.

The school offered to give DS an Ipad and I refuse for just the reason you are running into. Can he do what he needs to do on an AlphaSmart? (http://www.neo-direct.com/) Lots of schools have them locked away in a closet, they are very old technology but they can't be used the way an Ipad can.

We also instituted check-in, check-out with each of his teachers, who sign off his assignment notebook when it is correct, and someone checks him in at the beginning of the day (for assignments) and checks him out. I've asked all his teachers to email me IMMEDIATELY if there are any missing assignments. (DS is 12)

momsparky,I have never liked the idea of the use of contracts in this manner and I don't agree with it. Here is where my problem lies. A contract is a legally binding document in which both parties voluntary and mutually agree to exchange goods, services or money with other goods, services or money.

My objection to this is that a parent-child relationship is more dictatorial in nature more than voluntary. A contract by its nature is voluntary. In a parent-child relation the parent eventually does have to rule. By this, a child may or may not agree to certain things in this contract. By the nature of a parent-child relationship is this contract voluntary and an option? Does the child have the option to refuse to sign or is he compelled to by the nature of the Parent-Child relationship? If he is compelled to sign then how is this legally binding document voluntary? IMHO, I see a contradiction of concepts and standards and to me it comes across as doublethink and newspeak from the Book "1984" by George Orwell. I don't understand how the concept of a contract would hold up in a Parent-Child relationship.

OK - firstly, you are using a much more literal definition of the word "contract" than what I meant. Many people refer to written agreements between two parties as a "contract," and that's what we are talking about here. DS knows and we all know that there is no legal aspect to the behavioral contracts we set up.

Secondly, we do sit down and agree to the terms on these contracts as a family, including DS - that is why we're calling it a "contract" and not just a "list of rules." Yes, we do have more power over the situation as parents, but we really do sit down and talk about our ultimate objectives and how we can all agree that those will best be reached. This is why using incentives, rather than punishments, is important (although DS has agreed that certain actions have consequences, and he is willing to accept that.) This is the reason we use a contract format rather than traditional top-down authoritarian parenting.

Keep in mind that in most contract situations there is a power imbalance (e.g. employer/employee.) The function of the contract is twofold: one, to make the terms clear and easily accessible to both parties (very important with a kid on the spectrum) and two, to provide recourse to both parties should the terms of the agreement not be met. (something DS needs to learn in terms of how the world works.)

I didn't know that. I understand what you are saying now.



ohhhh ok I see. I see where my rationale is off. I was describing the authoritarian parenting style. You're more of an authoritative type of parent. http://psychology.about.com/od/childcar ... enting.htm You have high expectations of your son but there is wiggle room.





This makes sense and it sounds like you're a good mother to your son. You're one of the few people who show me where my rationale is off. Most people will just ignore me or curse me out. Why is that?

Many people view questioning as a form of questioning someone's authority or value or worth. They do not understand that that is not always the case. I think I have shared before that my son does this. Questions. But he isn't questioning in an adversarial, confrontational, or disrespectful way. He is checking to be sure that he understands. But many people do not understand that and instead assuming he is challenging them for negative reasons.

And, many people are not like you. They will not take in new information and try to learn from it; they will not admit that their rationale was off. Trying to explain yourself to people like that is not only annoying, it is a waste of time. I think most people who are regulars around here already know that you will be open to an explanation and change your mind if it makes sense to you, and if it is presented in a respectful way.

I understand that you actually think in this logical manner - other people are probably assuming you are playing some kind of socially manipulative game. The sad truth is that even if you tell them you're not, they probably can't frame your communication in any other way.

I saw this article recently, and I wish wholeheartedly it had been written in less crass language because I think this guy really understands the confusion of those with poor social skills. Keep in mind it is NSFW http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-your ... -hate-you/

quick diversion off-topic:

Often people either don't know, don't remember, or don't know how to summarize their rationale in a time efficient manner. So much easier to get huffy about not being trusted.

Honestly, I know most of my positions were well thought out once-upon-a-time. But dang if I can always remember all those thoughts down the road. And I hate being called on it. Now, I try to remember that my frustration is my problem, and not that of the person asking, but not everyone takes that step back.

this is also one of the things we are working on with my recently turned 12 y/o son. He makes an impulsive and poor choice without considering the consequences then develops intense anxiety about making the choice, getting in trouble, getting caught. I think part of the problem is that he knows he has made a mistake but is not sure what the consequences will be or how bad they will be. He often imagines the worst. The lies are also often impulsive.

Some of the things we have done is keep open contact with his support teacher, so we can verify his story to us and stories he tells them. We praise and give spontaneous reward for admitting what he did wrong and what his choices were to make it better. (We are working on not obsessing over being wrong/making a mistake, moving forward from the point we are at and choosing ways to make it better rather than making choices that make it worse). If he is caught in a lie, he gets a warning like, "That doesn't sound right to me. Maybe you need to organize your thoughts and try again." If we call it a "lie" he lies about lying or gets caught up in what is a lie.

It can be very frustrating.

The sad truth is you're right. I have had this experience. The only ones who show me are those on here including you, the professionals who specialize in ASD and philosophers of today. With other people, for whatever reason I can't get them to budge off of that. As an aside, this worries me so. It is stated that I have a right to a trial by a jury of my peers. If the average joe is my peer I wouldn't want to be tried by my peers.



You should see his other articles. http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-we-r ... eneration/