New Super Smash

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About the dodge roll thing, it is probably one of the most important aspects of fighting, more than a few times I have ben in battles where both sides keep dodge rolling from each other it comes down to who can stop and not leave themselves. I remember practicing since the original so it is often the best way to overcome dodge rolling by using it. My preferred move to use is a dash attack to hit someone by surprise by being a little risky, and can be worked well around the distance made b rolling. Another move I recommend for dealing with dodge rolling is the down smash, this often does a move that goes for a bit longer and hits around the character, which can take someone who is trying to dodge behind or in front of you by surprise.

Overall I think the best thing to do is to know exactly the gimmick of your character is and how it may surprise the opponent. My current favourites for this include: Using Zelda's teleport as an actual attack, with some practice you can control how far you go when along the ground. Being totally chaotic with Bowser Jr, most people underestimated that that his up special leave a bomb behind that does quite a bit of damage. Sonic can continuously dash past the enemy at high speeds either with a special or just running. Everyone underestimates Peach. Lucina can break shields if you can trick you opponent into using it.

Finally you need to be able to adjust yourself for what your opponent is doing, and know that they are likely doing the same. You might well actually learn some things you did not know by watching how other play, perhaps try and copy some of what you see.

I can think of a couple more tips actually:

With dodge rolls, DONT do them like, super constantly. Dont forget that you can block as well, which is important. And this leads to a very useful technique, as if you hit A *while* guarding, you'll go straight from blocking into a throw attempt, which can be very, very useful as there's tons of time where an opponent's attack that's thwarted by you blocking will cause them to be right in front of you, so you can just quickly hit A and grab them as punishment.

Also, you can do the side-step dodge too, that's helpful.

Oh, and finally: DONT use charged smash attacks. Just dont. They are *bad*. There's no such thing as an attack in a fighting game that's more heavily telegraphed than those. An opponent with at least 3 functioning braincells will notice that your character is very obviously glowing and vibrating for a super obvious smash attack, and all they need to do is.... absolutely nothing, and then you inevitably have to swing, at which point they can get in an easy free clobbering on you. No matter how much I play this, it just baffles me that anyone tries that. The only time these should be used is probably if your opponent's shield breaks, as they'll be stunned, so you can get in a charged hit before they're able to move again.

I would put some exceptions like Megaman whose can hit a good distance if you get the timing right.

That stick is easily the worst part of the 3DS controls. I don't know what exactly it is about it, but I can never seem to be reliably accurate with what I want to do with it, so half the time I end up launching an attack in the wrong direction or I do a side attack when I was trying to do a smash. But, I only have the 3DS version for now, I'll probably try to get the Wii U version as well, but that's at minimum a year away.



Yeah, it actually does make me really happy to see that as long as you know what you're doing, you can use any character you'd like and still fare a fighting chance. Partially because that's how I feel it should be. Nobody likes a game where they're forced to play as a character they don't like simply because they're "the best".

Yeah... it kind of does leave something to be desired though, in the way of variance at least. Granted I use some the more popular competitive characters too (such as Yoshi) but I try to mix it up with other characters I feel at least decent with. Whether that's necessarily a good idea or not is up to debate however.

Mewtwo DLC codes being sent out to Club Nintendo members via email.
Tomorrow patch 1.0.6 is out, it also adds DLC support to the game.
The Mii Fighter costumes will be out tomorrow as well.

Those who want to buy Mewtwo, will have to wait until the 29th.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/super-smas ... 106-432883

....what.

I just.... what.


Just.... uuuugh, fuses blown...

Though I'd be against YET ANOTHER MARTH (Roy) in the game myself, honestly (already fighting that SAME DAMN BATTLE way too often against others... it's gotten so boring...) the other would be.... interesting? I dont even...


As for Mewtwo and also Lucas if that rumor was true, feh. I'm probably just going to ignore both of them, myself; never liked either.

I miss Roy, his sword attacks were fire based and stronger than Marth.
Roy doesn't have the same movements and stats as Marth.


Also I can confirm that DLC characters do not count towards the challenge board and completing any mode.
DLC characters also do not have custom move sets to unlock!

Lastly the new customs are up today in NA.
I bought Link's costume (Mii Swordsman only for full costume, hat is usable on all Miis), Majora's Mask (mask), Mega Man X costume (Mii Gunner only for full costume, hat is usable on all Miis) and Proto Man costume (Mii Gunner only for full costume, hat is usable on all Miis)
Together they cost me ~$3, I had money left over from buying the new streetpass games and stuff.

Ryu is a huge WTF...but, it Capcom really does get a 2nd rep then perhaps Sega can get Bayonetta in and Bandai Namco can get Lloyd Irving in as well. As for Lucas, he's no rumor. Nintendo officially announced him in the last Direct, slated for a June release. and btw, Roy is at least different enough from Marth to not be so bad ( like Wolf to Fox or Lucas to Ness...still a "clone" but altered enough to not feel identical )

Still wondering what's going on with the Miiverse stage, we've heard NOTHING in months....when are we getting that? For that matter, will there be other DLC stages and trophies? ( there are new trophies for DLC fighters for beating classic and bullshi...I mean All Star plus an auto unlocking Alt trophy on Wii U )

First off... Bayonetta is now co-owned between Nintendo, Platinum Games, and Sega at the moment.
Though there is talks of Sega selling their stake to Nintendo.

There is a good chance if Bayonetta was created for Smash, it would cause the game to be rerated to M rating by the ESRB.

Lucas has different moves and stats from Ness, including movement.

Lucas is floater and faster, has a snake that also acts as a grapple for recovery, has a freeze move instead of fire, slightly different final smash.
Ness is tighter, has a yo-yo, Has fire move, cannot use yo-yo to grab on the side and other minor move differences.


The Miiverse stage is part of the Tournament patch (Which provides a 64 person tournament mode among others).
It probably will drop in June with Lucas.

There could be more stages, though the only new trophies are the DLC character trophies (Alts, Final Smash, main).

See, that's the thing: I dont mind the existence of clone characters in theory... Well, not TOO much. Even Street Fighter does that one (though, it's worth noting, MOST fighting games actually DONT do it... there's a reason for this...).

But Smash has TOO MANY of them. For most of them, there's not much difference; the clone set with the biggest difference seems to be Captain Falcon / Gannondorf, since Falcon is very fast, and Gannondorf is REALLY DAMN SLOW. For the others, there's... not even that much.

Marth, however, is like Fox was in Brawl: There's ALREADY a clone of him, and it's a *very* direct one... he seriously doesnt need yet another one. Just like Fox and Falco really didnt need Wolf appearing. Lucas I can pardon... there's no clone of Ness in the game already, though I still consider him a boring choice and will be ignoring him. Not only that, but Marth/Lucina are overused to the point of being a little ridiculous... they're so BORING to go up against.

On a side note, I hate Fire Emblem now. Havent played it mind you, but I hate it nonetheless.


Feh. It does actually bother me quite a bit that if Ryu of all characters, who comes from a game I consider rather dull, is put in, he'll be the ONLY DLC character I bother with.


And yes, before anyone mentions it: I know the clones have different stats and blah blah blah. Doesnt excuse their existence, and to me, them numbers on paper mean little: I'm the sort of player that has NOT EVEN ONCE bothered to look at things like frame data and all of that gibberish, yet can utterly and completely annihilate high level players that know ALL of that stuff and have practiced it to death in the fighting games I'm into (the majority of my obsessiveness in gaming as a whole goes into fighting games and shmups, so I'm *very* good at both). And that's in fighters that are much more technical and difficult than Smash (Guilty Gear X2 and it's various later versions, for example). And yes, I know that sounds braggy, but it's the truth, and I've proven it countless times by now. So yeah, that stuff just doesnt matter to me. I look at characters like Mario VS Dr. Mario, and what I see is characters with nearly identical movesets... same ground normals (and yes, I know, slight stat variations: But that doesnt mean that "forward air heavy punch thing" isnt still "forward air heavy punch thing" when the other uses it... it's even the same animation!), same air normals, ONE different special (water gun VS spin attack), both have a bouncing projectile though the bounce is slightly different (essentially, they're still the same move), and... yeah. Far as I'm concerned, they're the same, slightly different stats be damned. Dont get me wrong, these characters are still fun to play, just as Pit / Dark Pit are, and so on. But there's still just too many, and just not enough difference between the clones in each set to make them INTERESTING when compared to their doppelganger. A couple of changed moves while all the vast majority of moves remain identical in design does not an interesting character make. And then when a set then gets a THIRD one, just.... ugh.

Which is why 2 of the DLC characters being MORE CLONES (though as far as I know, Roy isnt confirmed yet?) rather bugs me. One of which will almost definitely be dramatically overused.... AGAIN.... sigh. And wait... come to think of it, doesnt MewTwo play pretty much like Lucario? It's been a LONG time since I've seen him, so I dont remember very well at this point.

Of course, that's all just my thoughts on that... nobody has to agree with it.

Other, non-character DLC/patch content I know little of, and dont really care about too much (at least not right now anyway), so I cant comment on that. Though I will say that a Miiverse stage sounds like it could be interesting.

Yeah... No...!

Marth:
*Has a lower jump
*Slower movement, with straight sword slashing, meaning it follows the X and Y axis.
*No B↓ counter move, and grabs are different.
*He also deals different damage rates than Lucina and has a different fall rate.
*His attack damage is fluctuates based on how much of his sword hits you.

Lucina:
*Nearly all of her sword attacks are curved meaning she has an circle attack range around here.
*She has stronger and quicker attacks than Marth.
*Her B charge attack breaks all shields
*Her B↓ attack counters all physical connecting moves.
*She also has better jumping
*Her attack damage is same the regardless of how much of her sword hits.

Ike: is one of the most powerful characters with direct attacks and aether final smash... Oh he is heavy and slow but good defense and attack.
Robin: Robin is magical base with a magical final smash.

Gannondorf and Captain Falcon were originally complete clones, but that isn't true anymore.

Gannondorf can switch directions with all his B moves, do it while doing B charging and you will deal 2x damage making it one of the most powerful attacks in the game.
Captain Falcon can't change direction during attacks.

They also have two different final smashes and custom move sets.
Gannondorf turns into Beast Form on stage and now attacks and freely moves.
Captain Falcon kicks you on to the track and runs you over with his car.


Mewtwo and Lucario are not clones!

Mewtwo is more powerful as general rule and much more floatier.
You cannot store Mewtwo's B charging attack.
Mewtwo is B↓ is disable, which makes the opponent dizzy (lengthy of dizziness depends on the damage meter)
Mewtwo B↑ is teleport - you go through all the opponents without dealing damage.
Mewtwo B→ is confusion which spins the opponent around.
Mewtwo is the lightest character in the game and a tad slower than Lucario
Mewtwo final smash is mega evolution Y using the move Psystrike, which strikes all characters caught it in with bolts of energy send them flying off the stage.

Lucario's attack power is based on his damage meter, his attack power maxes out between 100% - 200%.
If he gets to max power, he is one of the most powerful characters in the game.
Healing amount from items like food is also based on his damage meter

Lucario moveset is:
B charging is aura sphere and can be stored to be used again at full charge
B↓ is double team, which counters attacks anyone who lands an attack on him, if perfectly timed you can stun an opponent briefly.
B↑ is extreme speed, which deals damage while traveling through the air and allows you to cling to walls (when present).
B→ is force pam, which can be used to grab and throw opponents (triggers) or deals an explosive attack with B→.

His final smash is his mega evolution which maxes out his attack power.


Mewtwo and Lucario are not clones nor are they similar.

Dr. Mario main differences from Mario are:

*His pills do not lose strength when traveling (fireballs do)
*His final smash is stronger than Marios
*He is stronger and slower than Mario
*He has a different custom move set from Mario

Pit and Dark Pit have different stats and final smashes.



Lucas most likely will be significantly different from Ness.

Sakurai received a huge backlash for dropping Mewtwo, Lucas and Starwolf from Brawl and an even bigger backlash for not having them playable in 4 (Wolf is the only alt that is not a colored version of Starfox in 4).

I already explained: stat differences mean nothing to me. "Lower jump"? Stat difference. Slower movement? Stat difference. ONE different special? Already went over that... not enough. One move being different does not stop a clone from being a clone. Things like attack damage fluctuating based on how much Marth's sword hits you? Sorry... no. Again, stat differences. It simply changes up how the hitbox works... nothing more. And in the end, this does little in a real fight (which, again, is something I can prove against those trying to make use of it. It wont make any difference if someone fights me with Lucina or Marth... the same exact things without the tiniest difference work on both of them, and I dont need to learn how to deal with them seperately).

Ike and Robin... I didnt mention. I'm talking about the CLONE CHARACTERS. How in the bloody hell would anyone mistake Robin for a clone of anyone? Didnt you read what I said? Though, I suppose you could have gotten that impression based on my line about not liking Fire Emblem. To further explain, it's not JUST because of this game, but also because friends of mine NEVER SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT IT. I got tired of it LONG ago, and the Smash series (where the Fire Emblem characters, mostly Marth, have been overused since they first appeared) just doesnt help one bit.


Also... I already kinda mentioned that I know full damn well that a clone doesnt copy literally every move; ALL of the clones have usually one special changed completely (again, Mario's water VS Dr. Mario's spin) or at least changed enough to make a heavy difference (Falcon's lunge+uppercut VS Dorf's lunge+grab).

Dr. Mario VS Mario: Pills dont lose strength? Not enough. Still bounces and moves in the same way. From both a design and coding perspective, there's not really a difference here, and it doesnt change how the move is used tactically during a match. Stronger & slower? ALREADY WENT OVER THIS. This isnt about stats (speed/damage/strength/knockback, all of these things are purely statistical elements). That's not what I meant from the start. This is about the recycling of moves and animations. If Mario's forward smash remained the same, but Dr. Mario's forward smash were to be changed to some sort of flipping kick, THAT is a move change. THAT is what I'm talking about. That's what I've BEEN talking about this whole time. Instead? No. They have the same exact forward smash... with statistical changes. And again, I already knew about all of those stat changes. I've played this series to freaking death. I also already knew the technical bits. Already knew how Marth's sword works, how Mario & Dr. Mario's projectiles worth, how Falcon and Gannondorf's moves work, and so on. Please, dont make assumptions about what I do or do not know. I dont take kindly to it. So, I do indeed know all of that stuff, yet my opinion as it is was generated regardless, for the reasons I already have explained. There is a reason WHY these characters are called "clones", and why alot of players cried foul on that one.

Playing as them, I normally only use Dr. Mario, because he's Dr. Mario, related to a puzzle game I've always loved, and his character concept is entertaining to me. So, normally, I just dont use or practice with normal Mario. However, every now and then, I'll either hit random and get normal Mario, or just pick him for the heck of it.... and I need not change up how I play AT ALL. If the characters truly had major differences, this would NOT work. I'd simply fail if I tried to play in the same way as I do with Dr. Mario. Doesnt happen though... same exact level of performance, and I dont change my tactics whatsoever, except to occaisionally do something with the spinning special. I'm no less strong with Mario than Dr. Mario, despite never really using him, BECAUSE they're that close when it comes to.... everything. Come to think of it, the only clone set that does require change is Falcon and Gannondorf, because the speed change is massive. But then, I already said those two are the most far apart.



As for MewTwo & Lucario: Read again what I said. I expressed confusion on those two, as I not only do not use them, but havent even SEEN MewTwo in ages, and my memory is bloody horrible. The only thing that my memory linked together was their movement style and that energy ball, so I wasnt quite sure if they were clones or if the rest of their movesets were totally different in every way (like Mario VS, say, Bowser). To quote myself: "And wait... come to think of it, doesnt MewTwo play pretty much like Lucario? It's been a LONG time since I've seen him, so I dont remember very well at this point." Note the bit about "been a LONG time" and "I dont remember very well at this point".


Now, to add one final thing to all of this, and I should have probably mentioned this beforehand: I'm *not* counting their final smashes at all. Not usable in tournament rules, which, as much as I'm not fond of those rules (no, seriously, I hate what those rules do with the game, but I have to put up with them nonetheless), is where the serious competition lies. Your thoughts or anyone else's are totally free to have a different opinion on that one, but from MY OWN PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, these mean nothing. Note the "personal perspective" bit there. The same goes for the custom moves; they are typically excluded from tournament-style rules, and they are always excluded from the online "for glory" mode. Dont get me wrong: I wish they werent. They're INTERESTING. But they are, so for the purposes of my own opinions on all of this, I'm ignoring them completely. Again, based on the modes you play and such, your own experience with that game mechanic specifically may be very different, which is fine. Indeed, I should have said all of that to begin with, but it didnt occur to me until you mentioned Final Smashes.


EDIT: Also, I'll quote one other thing you said, just because it was bugging me:

For Marth, you said:

....Marth has a counter move. Down and B. Even the Smash Wiki explains this in detail... He's always had this...

To each their own.

With that said the only cosmetic similarity between Mewtwo and Lucario is their B charge move.

Whining about clone characters, they tend to be fairly different that people will have a favoured one that shows they have a place.

Like I have very little interest in playing as Marth, I don't like him very much, but I do really like the faster Lucina, her shield breaker is really useful in trying to force your opponent to use a shield. Mario is balanced, but he just lacks power to be interesting to me, thus Dr Mario is more fun for me, his up-B connects about between Mario and Luigi, he has a spinning down-B, and his projectile is different.

Captain Falcon plays pretty much all about speed, get in as much attack as possible, while Ganondorf requires more patience but he can hit damn hard. Although personally I wished that there was things more unique to Ganondorf like he appeared in Hyrule Warriors.

Wolf was Hardly a clone of Fox. His shooting was slower but rewarded more for being close, in general he was slow and heavy despite how he looked and played more for dealing heavy attacks. His dash attack hit at an upward angle, and his up-B was slower, which meant you could not play him the same way. In general he encouraged closer combat. And Falco, he loses most of the speed that makes Fox's dashes so effective, and instead gains a better jump which makes them different to play, not to mention that Foxes range attack dealing no stun makes it good to surprise get some damage in, while Falco's is better for disrupting.

Pit and Dark Pit I am more confused about, there are not huge differences, but I know that he can cause more damage by standard B and I think his forward-B, and some of his attacks work better for meteor smashes.

A big example of difference despite looking like a clone is Toon Link, where despite looking similar there are some pretty big differences in attributes of most attacks.

My opinion remains unchanged.

Like I said: I dont even have to change up my tactics or such AT ALL when switching from one character to their clone (and again, I'm *not* a low-level player in this or any of the fighting games I'm into, so I bloody well know what I'm doing). To me, this says: Way too close. And the only clone set I *dont* use is Marth and Lucina (hate them both). I actually do use all of the others. Only Falcon and Gannondorf require that I do anything differently. The minor differences mean little with the others. Dr. Mario's spinning move for example I rather like, but... normal Mario's water is nice too, and there's just not enough else between the two other than that for it to matter which I choose. It simply doesnt matter... the outcome, and the way that I get there, will be the same. The only other difference that I really think much about is Fox's laser VS Falco's, since Falco's causes a bit of hit-stun, which can be useful.

In all honesty, I actually DONT have a problem with the currently existing clone characters... the roster is big enough for it not to really matter much. As a rule, I really dont give a fart. Not an issue. It's the idea of adding MORE that bugs me, when they could come up with something totally, genuinely new. And even then... feh, I only care so much (as in, not enough to continue debating it much past this point; it was interesting for awhile but my interest overall is gone).

Oh well. In the end, it's really a minor complaint considering the sheer quality of the rest of the game. I just wish I could get more interested/excited about the DLC... sadly, that's likely not happening for a long time, if at all.

Just got the soundtrack for Super Smash Bros. 3DS and Wii U, today. Kind of surprised that it was so quick since I only got an Email a few days ago saying that it would take 10-14 days.