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ladakh
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19 Jul 2006, 1:26 am

God is the Creator, who created among other things you.

"He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth, and He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things", as the Qu'ran states.

God Created this universe one day and it's been "this universe" ever since.

God made this universe so it will evolve to the point of one day you asking who He is, so good question.

God gave us all free will. This means we have the state of mind to do whatever we want to.

With our free will, we are free to define the world around us. As we look at the world around us we see perfect order- we see galaxies and planets and leopards and atoms and it all fits together. Except for us, because we have free will.

This is because He made the universe for us- for self-aware beings like us. And dolphins and whales and aliens too.

As humans, we are free to choose between good and bad or right and wrong because of our free will. A lion in the desert is not evil because he eats Gazelles- that is in his nature; if he did not eat Gazelles, he would starve to death.

We are perfectly free to live a good or a bad life, but ultimately we have the ability to define ourselves; we are free-willed.

Now, did God make the universe so good can triumph over evil? Of course not- God is God, after all- if He wanted, he could simply wave "bad" away.

But if you wiped "badness" away, you'd be left with only "goodness", and with nothing to compare goodness against, goodness ceases to be goodness.


Next, who are you? What exactly defines "you"? It's most certainly not your body- your body is definetly not you.

If I cut your legs off, would you still be you? If you were a quadraplegic, would you still be you? If some mad scientist kept your head alive in a jar, would you still be you? And if he transplanted your head on another body, would you be you again?

"You" clearly are somewhere in your head. Your brain, to be precise. "We" are nothing more than our brains. And one further- most of the mental activity going on in our brains is automatic- if you had to remember to do everything your body automatically does, you would die.

"We" are nothing more than the sum of our two pre-frontal lobes. We are nothing more than electricity, housed in a thing called a human being.

Does this mean we don't exist; that everything is an illusion? Of course not- we really do exist, it's just that "we" are trapped in our human bodies for the moment.

When "we" die, our mind is free from our bodies to move on to another level of awareness. A simple way to look at it is that reality is an arcade and you put in a quarter and live a lifetime. Then the game ends, you take off your goggles and move on to the next game.

Next question- "Why doesn't God XYZ for me when I ask Him to?" Because if God appeared everytime you called Him, this wouldn't be reality anymore, this would be a TV sitcom. Put it this way- if God walked in your front door right now and sat down and answered every question you have for Him, gave you a trillion dollars in gold then left, what would you do next?

This is where the video game analogy comes into play- if you're struggling with a part of a video game you're playing and you go online and get the cheat code to make it really easy, don't you lose interest soon afterward? Wouldn't life become boring after you realize it really is nothing but a video game?

And this is where "God's Philosophy" comes into play. There are many books and schools of thought that all teach God's philosophy- they're called religions. None of them are perfect because all of them have been made by human hands (with a little help, of course) and here's how religion works:

Imagine you can sum up every religion there is or ever was to one sheet of paper. Collectively, it will be an encyclopedia of religion.

But since no human philosophy is perfect, all logical conclusions therein will in places have holes in them- holes- as if a bookworm is worming its way through the book randomly.

Over time, the book gets very holy. "Where is God in all of this" you ask? If you hold the book up to the light at the right angle, you can at times see clearly through the book. When you see through the book, you are looking directly at God.

So why is God being so elaborate? Because that is the beauty of God- God's job here is make sure there is no God! Think of reality as the ultimate amusement park and God is the big guy running the show. Your job is to go on the rides and God's job is to make sure you enjoy yourself. To that end, God put together the ultimate amusement park- it's called "our universe".

If this is the case, then why do we struggle? Because this is reality and we have free will. This means there is causality: the bad actions have bad outcomes. As the Buddhists believe, the cause of suffering is want; to remove desire is to be in bliss.

Is our suffering something we brought onto ourselves? Most of the time, yes. But sometimes people are asked to carry heavier burdens. There is a payoff, but these things are beyond human understanding.

What we do know is that since we have free will, we are perfectly free to explore and discover God ourselves. There is no such thing as "a man full of religion"- religous desire is inherent to humans, if God did not exist, it would be neccesary to invent him.

The world is your to explore and find answers from. Since God exists everywhere all the time, you are free to discover God yourself- whether through science (whatever they can't explain is God), math (God is at the end of pi), art or music (God is definetly cultured), history (God leaves footprints over time) and even car driving (God always pulls over to help change someone's flat) and waitressing (God loves a banquet!)... God exists in the perfection of things because God is perfect.

And if you STILL can't see the beauty of God in things then look at the beauty of ALL things.

Now who is God to you? God is that little voice in your head. You know- that little voice in our heads that's constantly telling "we're doing the right thing!" or "this is the wrong thing".

God is that desperate voice a man hears right before he dons a ski mask and robs a bank. God is the wave of self-satisfaction we get when we help someone out. God is that imaginary person that listens when we have doubt. God is that feeling we get deep in our gut when we realize we are "getting away with it". And at the same time, there are people who are so desperate that God can only appear to them as a handful of rice.

God is your drinking buddy who never gives up hope on you. God is the anonymous stranger who left you a ten-spot while you were sleeping on the street. God is the light at the end of the psychodelic tunnel. When you come to the end of reason, whatever is left is God.

If you do not hear that little voice in your head, then that means God has stopped talking to you. If you can walk past that homeless man with apathy instead of pity; if you spit the ground you walk on then God has stopped talking to you.

Why has God stopped talking to you? In reality he hasn't- it's just that you have turned that part of your brain off... you simply stopped listening to Him, like the way you'd ignore the hum of an air conditioner that over time you don't hear at all.

This is because you have free will- you are perfectly free to ignore God and get away with it, at least until inevitability catches up with you just as you can logically conclude God does not exist. But the miracle of it all is that He exists nonetheless.

In truth, I pity the man who truly believes God does not exist- such a person must truly and utterly fear his death because he knows he will confront his maker- he just has to know it... just look around you!

Such a person is like the video game addict who, even after beating the game a hundred times still gets satisfaction from it- he is utterly bland and tasteless, he will spend the rest of his days right where he is learning nothing new and accomplishing nothing.

Or perhaps even worse off, he truly believes that when he dies, nothing will happen. Such a person is living a totally useless and meaningless existence, may God help him.

As Ghandi writes: "I know the path. It is straight and narrow. It is like the edge of a sword. I rejoice to walk on it. I weep when I slip. God's word is: 'He who strives never perishes.' I have implicit faith in that promise. Though, therefore, from my weakness I fail a thousand times, I will not lose faith, but hope that I shall see the Light when the flesh has been brought under perfect subjection, as some day it must."

So how can you hear God again? Just start listening again.



Mordy
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19 Jul 2006, 4:47 am

Aeturnus wrote:
When someone talks about God around me, I tend to envision this cloud with a mouth and eyes high in the sky looking over every one. Why? I don't know. It's just that it's supposed to be this superhuman person invented by religious zealots.

I wonder what the Pope would say if asked, "What does God look like?"

Honestly, though, why do people believe in such things? I guess people will believe in anything to fit in, like there was a cult whom believed that peace was to be found riding on the tail of a comet. All those people committed suicide to do so. I think that religious people are very confused people, and they are incapable of thinking for themselves, so they need to commit themselves to some sort of doctrine dictating what is to be moral and what is to be not.

Jesse Ventura once spoke the truth.

- Ray M -


The truth is religious people have many reasons for being religious... but the primary reasons are simply

1) Because thats what there parents taught them
2) They are too busy living life to question their faith
3) Despite its falsity belief in something gives them hope of a better life
4) Many people are poor, desperate, sick, diseased, and will never have a chance in this life to live a good life (A hard pill to swallow for anyone)
5) People align their natures and direction with other like minded people, so if someone likes jesus teachings of the bible the will ignore the old testament mostly and focus on what is in their nature and align with it, hence the attraction to religion is for the social community of shared values... since most people act like animals and judge people harshly in the real world.
6) Some simply want to escape the horror of reality, and to be frank, living in any time before science has come up with a way for everyone to not work, and live perpetually is in fact... a pretty sad existence for all those misfortunate souls who happen to be born in a crappy time and place.
7) People believe religion for the rewards, if a religion and its god promised you a pat on the back, do you think people would bend over backwards to delude themselves?
8) Religion plays on evoloutions mechanism to keep people happy and deluded while they procreate and live their lives, some people without religion would simply kill themselves or be much more miserable and it would have profound effects on how they behaved in their day to day lives to the detriment of their survival and happyness.

So succumbing to delusion to ease the pain is an evolutionary survival mechanism...



Mordy
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19 Jul 2006, 4:54 am

ladakh wrote:
But if you wiped "badness" away, you'd be left with only "goodness", and with nothing to compare goodness against, goodness ceases to be goodness.


Sorry I take issue with this statement, this is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard! Living in a world where war is unknown and peace is the norm, does not fail to be "good" when there isn't war to compare it against. It's a silly childish argument.

i.e. "life would be boring if... we didn't have evil!" well... I don't know about you but most people who believe in religion and a higher power simply want that pleasant "boring" life without evil.



MrMark
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19 Jul 2006, 8:37 am

one1ai wrote:
What is god?
I believe god is a manifestation of the sub-conscience. This makes it no less "real" and certainly no less powerful.


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ladakh
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19 Jul 2006, 10:28 am

>But if you wiped "badness" away, you'd be left with only "goodness", and with nothing to compare goodness against, goodness ceases to be goodness. <

>>Sorry I take issue with this statement, this is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard! Living in a world where war is unknown and peace is the norm, does not fail to be "good" when there isn't war to compare it against. It's a silly childish argument.

i.e. "life would be boring if... we didn't have evil!" well... I don't know about you but most people who believe in religion and a higher power simply want that pleasant "boring" life without evil.<<

Since you take issue with this one sentince, does this mean you agree with the other 99% of what I wrote, and if this is the case, isn't 99% enough?

What if I got you one of those "meat by mail" memberships and sent you a big, juicy steak every day- how long until you get bored of eating big, juicy steaks? A year? Ten years? Or you'd never get bored of eating the same old big fay juicy steak every day?



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22 Jul 2006, 6:09 am

I am true to god and jesus.



VesicaPisces
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27 Jul 2006, 1:57 am

From my perspective-----The Universe is god. Uni is everywhere, they are omnipotent. "They" insinuating the duality and triessence of nature. Assuming that the Universe is infinite, which should be assumed in my opinion. The Universe is also the beginning and the end. Every end a beginning and every beginning an end. Considering that we are all elements of this unified structure, we are also part of god, and god is a part of us. We are literally created in there image. This image being the Universe, the big picture. This argument, to me, is true. Though it is only upon personal reflection and logical deduction that it can become true for you. This philosophy is truly a wonderful one in my opinion for it opens up doors in the self that seemed should not even exist priorly. :)


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MrMark
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27 Jul 2006, 8:02 am

ladakh wrote:
But if you wiped "badness" away, you'd be left with only "goodness", and with nothing to compare goodness against, goodness ceases to be goodness.
Mordy wrote:
ladakh wrote:
But if you wiped "badness" away, you'd be left with only "goodness", and with nothing to compare goodness against, goodness ceases to be goodness.


Sorry I take issue with this statement, this is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard! Living in a world where war is unknown and peace is the norm, does not fail to be "good" when there isn't war to compare it against. It's a silly childish argument.
ladakh wrote:
>But if you wiped "badness" away, you'd be left with only "goodness", and with nothing to compare goodness against, goodness ceases to be goodness. <

>>Sorry I take issue with this statement, this is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard! Living in a world where war is unknown and peace is the norm, does not fail to be "good" when there isn't war to compare it against. It's a silly childish argument.

i.e. "life would be boring if... we didn't have evil!" well... I don't know about you but most people who believe in religion and a higher power simply want that pleasant "boring" life without evil.<<
William Shakespeare wrote:
"Nothing in the world is good or bad, but thinking makes it so."


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romanax
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02 Aug 2006, 3:14 pm

Let me say right off that conventional religion is wrong, because it makes human beings the center of the universe, is not really very inclusive, and it is mostly run by men who are very self-rightious. However, there are still a lot of churches that have something meaningful to say, especially for A.S. persons.
Even at age 5, when I got the typical little preachy sermon from some other kid, I told them what they were saying was wrong! I have been very atheistically-oriented, but I am getting over that by rising above both atheism and theism.
While I do attend my local Unity church, my focus is now on Process Philosophy and Theology. I think many of the developers of these ideas are also A.S. persons.
The bible for this topic is "Process and Reality," by Alfred North Whitehead.
John B. Cobb is the current senior proponent at Claremont College, the home of Process Theology. See Process on Questia

I agree with Whitehead that all studies of philosophy must explore the nature of God, even if God is a product of our psyche's or way beyond our notion of reality. The nature of God is closely linked to the nature of Subjective Reality. Objective Reality is trivial for A.S. persons; it is Subjective Reality where we have all our problems. "Normal" people are so conceited to think they know so much, while they do so many irrational things.

What do I now believe? I do not "believe in" God or "believe in" Jesus Christ; rather, I "believe" God and "believe" Jesus Christ. This comes from Panentheism, a notion related to Process Theology, where God is in all, but God is not all. God knows no more than what has already happened, but God embraces everything new that comes about.



Last edited by romanax on 03 Aug 2006, 8:43 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Magus
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03 Aug 2006, 4:41 pm

Aeturnus wrote:
We, as aspies, are rational creatures. I would have to question true aspieness for those who believe in God.


Great! Now, not only am I an outcast from NT society because of my lack of social skills, I am apparently also an outcast from the aspie community because I seek after a higher power and refuse to believe in strict materialism. :(



voss749
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09 Aug 2006, 9:27 pm

No its not the "candy ass" version of god or the "old testament" version,
The god that exists is likely as far above us as we are above the hamster.

Have you ever had a pet hamster?
You care for it, you think its cute but you're not going to go to extraordinary measures
to stop it from dying. If it dies...you might feel sad for a few days but you get a new
hamster. Of course if we have souls, collect the soul put it in back in the soul recycling bin
and move on to the next hamster.

Earth is gods habittrail and we are god's pet hamsters.



AegNuddel
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12 Aug 2006, 8:01 pm

Sorry but I believe in God and this idiotic generalization of Aspies must stop. If as you say Aspies are rational, then assuming all aspies are EXACTLY the same and have the same thought processes is downright irrational. Take that and stuff it in your collective atheist *censored*. :?



sigholdaccountlost
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20 Aug 2006, 3:46 pm

Warning: My next post will most likely be highly offensive to anyone who is religous. If you want to take your chances, stay with us. Otherwise, go make yourself a nice pie or something. I'll give you 5 minutes.



MrMark
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20 Aug 2006, 3:55 pm

We're waiting...


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sigholdaccountlost
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20 Aug 2006, 3:58 pm

Right.

Now, Jesus/God/Whoever is supposed to love you, right?

If that's the case then how come lots of us have been bullied.

Well, there's a few possible reasons
1)He cares about everyone as long as they're NT
2) Satan/the devil/evil spirits. ((Which I find to be a very convient excuse.
3)He doesn't know
4) He can't do anything about it.


Once I had to draw Him for an R.E. exercise. Now, how on earth I'm supposed to draw what I am convinced is a fairytale was beyond me until I realized that I could just draw him in a book and I labelled it 'doesn't exist'. When me and another class-mate broached the issue of natrual disasters, all our R.E. teacher could come up with was 'Um...err...erm..erh..that's a good point actually.' and didn't mange to answer the question.



MrMark
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20 Aug 2006, 4:07 pm

Image


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"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson