Political affiliation poll.

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Worker cooperatives and communes are great examples of libertarian socialism in work today.

I like the sound of that: co-operative individualism. But say that we do start basing our economy on voluntary co-operative associations. What keeps the apparachiks and the power trippers from taking them over?

ruveyn

I broadly fall under the umbrella of "social democracy," but I'm more right wing on economics (still support a welfare state, but oppose things such as "fair trade,) and very left-wing on social issues.

Wasn't sure how to vote. Would have said "socialist" - I think I have a mix of Marxist, anarcho-syndicalist, and democratic socialist tendencies - but the socialist label implied that one was still in favor of capitalism, which I am not.

I live in Canada and vote for the social-democratic NDP.

Still, I think I'm in good company, like with Noam Chomsky, who is philosophically an anarchist but is a strong defender of a social democratic agenda.

We as human beings have a fatal flaw and I see no answer to our problems.

Our problem is this. We are tribal animals. Our success in the world has come through cooperating and working as a group. Think a dozen cavemen driving a Mammoth over a cliff and feeding the whole tribe.

But unlike bees or ants we are are competitive and aggressive within our group. (Alpha males, Beta males etc.)

We could have full Communism where everyone is "equal" but that has never worked.

We could be Anarchists or Libertarians or Ayn Rand supporters but that doesn't work either.

What they are saying is "The survival of the fittest", "The Law of the Jungle", "Screw you Jack, I'm alright", "Let the widows and orphans starve".

If we are to survive as a species we must work out a system where we are tribal but still reward individual effort and skill.

Looks like the libertarian socialist label would be more appropriate. I wanted to have two socialist options. Traditional "pure" socialism and socialism as the majority of the world knows it as practiced in European counties.

There is no such thing as alpha and beta males in the human species. Other then the symbolic significance we give to the terms in the context of dating.
Many would argue that communism has never been practiced outside of small tight nit communes around the world. The USSR practiced state capitalism.
Anarchism is a political philosophy where the state and private property are abolished and decision making is made by the community and the workers. Libertarianism and Objectivism stress absolute private property rights and unrestrained capitalism.

Last edited by GodluckGoodspeed on 07 Nov 2010, 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Reinhold Heidrich, the Reichsprotektor was an alpha male. Jewish males who were mercilessly slaughtered by the Nazis were beta males.

Next question?

ruveyn

Fail.

Could you explain that?

Fascist (nationalist or other far right ideologies)

Mostly just because it'll upset someone.

Actually it goes by a different name Communism. Libertarianism and socialism are practically polar opposites. If I have my definitions right than Ron Paul would be a Libertarian and he wants government out of people's lives.

With Communism you get the gulags, the "re-education camps" and the secret police.

ruveyn

That is the end result, you don't necessarily see it at first.

Fact is Libertarians believe that Government should get the heck out of people's lives. Where liberal socialists want government to function as a nanny state. There is a bit of a disconnect.

Not so much a disconnect as wishful thinking run amok. The liberal welfare staters think they can have all the good features of the benevolent nanny state without incurring the inevitable loss of liberty that follows the establishment of such a state.

It would be lovely to live in a kind an benevolent world in which the strong do not oppress the weak, and in which those who are suffering misfortune through no fault of their own are readily supported by their more fortunate neighbors. If I could bring such a state of the world into being by waving a wand, I would have done so a long time ago. But I am afraid we will never achieve such a benevolent state of being. I think the best we can do is to keep the evil that befalls to a manageable level.

Call me a pessimist. Call me cab.

(reply/on) You are a pessimist. You are a cab (reply/off)

ruveyn