Born-again christian with doubts

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NeantHumain
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21 Feb 2012, 11:55 pm

DEdwards wrote:

Please help. I'm drowning in doubt.

What if you're not drowning but only just now gasping your first breaths of free air?

Fnord
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21 Feb 2012, 11:56 pm

DEdwards wrote:

just all those years of hellfire being burned into my mind, even as a child, they'd threaten with damnation for something as small as claiming I didn't wash my hands before dinner.

That's a form of religious indoctrination called "Appeal to Fear" or "Appeal to Dire Consequences". It's a great tool for instilling desired behavior in children -- making "Hellfire and Damnation" the penalty for everything from dirty hands to soiled underwear.

No wonder Atheists are some of the bravest people I know.

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The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.

shrox
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22 Feb 2012, 12:03 am

You have nothing to fear from anywhere.

That you would go to hell is just a lie. That's all.

Hell is not made for man. It is prepared for Satan and his demons, not you.

Just relax for a while.

Lord_Gareth
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22 Feb 2012, 4:49 am

shrox wrote:

Hell is not made for man. It is prepared for Satan and his demons, not you.

[Humorous Aside]You know, I know the intended meaning of this phrase. I understand it perfectly, without needing any further explanation. And yet, every time I read it, the only thing I can think of is the Bringer of Light on the telephone, complaining to God that the housemaids stole all the mints off of the pillows.[/Humorous Aside]

Honestly my friend, I can't imagine what you're going through. I never really found faith anywhere (not for lack of looking) and never really developed a fear response to a lack thereof except for the infrequent bouts of soul-crushing nihilistic terror that sometimes overwhelm me when I contemplate the nature of death and oblivion. Remember, though: no one has the right to tell you what to believe but you. It doesn't matter what you choose to believe, even if those beliefs are held to be absurd - but it's also your right to change your beliefs as you learn, grow, and change yourself.

Don't be afraid to be yourself. Just try to think about the consequences of your new paradigm(s) before you run screaming to embrace them ~_^

heavenlyabyss
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22 Feb 2012, 5:59 am

DEdwards wrote:

Hello everyone. I do apologize for the frequency of my posts but I have a lot of questions and a few weigh heavily on my mind, especially this one.

I love God but as I grow older, I'm finding more and more contradictions and mistruths and scandals arise. I'm not sure where to turn. I find my love for Him is dwindling because of all the questions. I pray for peace but all I see is pain and suffering. Why would He not want to spare an infant's life rather than punish the wicked for their deeds? Why are there wicked people in the first place? Can't lessons be learned through His teachings without having to resort to violence and anger? I mean, if He want to teach someone a lesson, does He have to kill or maim the innocent to make His point? I read a lot of secular points on facebook - a lot of which state that God is like an abusive husband who will hurt you if you don't do as He says. That seems wrong to me.

Please help. I'm drowning in doubt.

Actually I agree with the seculars who say that. I am not a secular, more of an independent theist.

If you take the Bible literally word for word, it is abusive. For example, the whole idea of using eternal damnation as a threat is abusive in my opinion.

If you do not take the Bible literally and instead just pick and choose the passages you want to take meaning from, then it is not abusive.

Being a Christian doesn't make you a bad person by any means. I guess I just think some of the teachings of Christianity are flat-out wrong, and if you take the Bible too literally, it may harm you. Aspies have a way of taking things literally which might be part of the problem. Some people are very good at seeing the good while ignoring the bad. I don't understand these people.

I know some self-described Christians who are most certainly good people but they are not fundamentalists. They take things with a grain of salt. If you have the ability to do that, more power to you. I certainly am not able to do so.

heavenlyabyss
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22 Feb 2012, 6:05 am

Are these the kind of arguments you are referring to?

Keep in mind the very obvious atheist bias, but I can't help but agree.

http://atheism.about.com/od/whatisgod/p ... busive.htm

MCalavera
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22 Feb 2012, 7:15 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:

Being a Christian doesn't make you a bad person by any means. I guess I just think some of the teachings of Christianity are flat-out wrong, and if you take the Bible too literally, it may harm you. Aspies have a way of taking things literally which might be part of the problem. Some people are very good at seeing the good while ignoring the bad. I don't understand these people.

I personally don't understand the liberal Christians that do much more cherry-picking than the fundamentalists. It's like they know something's not right but they just don't want to let go of it completely.

Where's the intellectual integrity and honor in that?

Kraichgauer
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22 Feb 2012, 8:00 am

MCalavera wrote:

heavenlyabyss wrote:

It's a matter of knowing (or guessing) what should be taken literally, and what shouldn't. I don't see a lack of integrity in that. But that's just me. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

goodwitchy
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22 Feb 2012, 9:00 am

MCalavera wrote:

heavenlyabyss wrote:

I personally don't understand the liberal Christians that do much more cherry-picking than the fundamentalists. It's like they know something's not right but they just don't want to let go of it completely.

Where's the intellectual integrity and honor in that?

Not all science is proven, yet many consider theories in the realm of intellect rather than completely rejecting or dismissing them. Do you have proof of everything you believe, and everything you think is true?

MCalavera
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22 Feb 2012, 10:24 am

I'm not sure how that's relevant to whatever I said in that last post of mine.

shrox
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22 Feb 2012, 11:33 am

Lord_Gareth wrote:

shrox wrote:

Hell is not made for man. It is prepared for Satan and his demons, not you.

That's not funny. I like those mints, especially Andes.

Lord_Gareth wrote:

Honestly my friend, I can't imagine what you're going through. I never really found faith anywhere (not for lack of looking) and never really developed a fear response to a lack thereof except for the infrequent bouts of soul-crushing nihilistic terror that sometimes overwhelm me when I contemplate the nature of death and oblivion. Remember, though: no one has the right to tell you what to believe but you. It doesn't matter what you choose to believe, even if those beliefs are held to be absurd - but it's also your right to change your beliefs as you learn, grow, and change yourself.

Don't be afraid to be yourself. Just try to think about the consequences of your new paradigm(s) before you run screaming to embrace them ~_^

Good advice.

Thom_Fuleri
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22 Feb 2012, 1:07 pm

goodwitchy wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

It's like they know something's not right but they just don't want to let go of it completely.
Where's the intellectual integrity and honor in that?

A scientific theory is an explanation that fits the facts and allows reasonably accurate prediction of future facts. It is generally accepted that they are "best fits" - but the point is that, if evidence goes against the theory, the theory can be changed. And occasionally it IS let go of completely, if we discover something that completely blows it out of the water.

Proof? It works. That's the best evidence you can have.

That said, sometimes people do have trouble letting go of an idea. Science has often advanced in the past through the death of old scientists who won't accept a new idea. That's not a problem with science, but with human beings!

DEdwards
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22 Feb 2012, 1:11 pm

Ladies and gentlemen, you've just witnessed the birth of an atheist.

Just spend half the day watching Carl Sagan and stuff about critical thinking and this guy named Richard Hawkins on YouTube. Very enlightening.

Thom_Fuleri
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22 Feb 2012, 1:24 pm

DEdwards wrote:

Welcome to the club! We get to sleep in on Sundays... :-)

shrox
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22 Feb 2012, 1:37 pm

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

DEdwards wrote:

Welcome to the club! We get to sleep in on Sundays... :-)

Great! The Sabbath is Saturday! See you then!

shrox
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22 Feb 2012, 2:50 pm

Don't forget...

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." - Romans 8:11

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