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iamnotaparakeet
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20 Dec 2009, 11:14 pm

I would like to present Isaiah 9:1-7 in the KJV, JPS, and NIV for reading as I think this passage quite relates to Jesus Christ. It is,

KJV wrote:
Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian. For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
(Isaiah 9:1-7 KJV)


JPS wrote:
(8:23) For is there no gloom to her that was stedfast? Now the former hath lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but the latter hath dealt a more grievous blow by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, in the district of the nations. (9:1) The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light; they that dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. (9:2) Thou hast multiplied the nation, Thou hast increased their joy; they joy before Thee according to the joy in harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. (9:3) For the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, Thou hast broken as in the day of Midian. (9:4) For every boot stamped with fierceness, and every cloak rolled in blood, shall even be for burning, for fuel of fire. (9:5) For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele- joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom; (9:6) That the government may be increased, and of peace there be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it through justice and through righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts doth perform this.
(Isaiah 9:1-7 JPS)


NIV wrote:
1 Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan-

2 The people walking in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of the shadow of death [a]
a light has dawned.

3 You have enlarged the nation
and increased their joy;
they rejoice before you
as people rejoice at the harvest,
as men rejoice
when dividing the plunder.

4 For as in the day of Midian's defeat,
you have shattered
the yoke that burdens them,
the bar across their shoulders,
the rod of their oppressor.

5 Every warrior's boot used in battle
and every garment rolled in blood
will be destined for burning,
will be fuel for the fire.

6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.

Footnotes:

1. Isaiah 9:2 Or land of darkness
2. Isaiah 9:6 Or Wonderful, Counselor


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS3vpAWW2Zc[/youtube]



leejosepho
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20 Dec 2009, 11:28 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I think this passage quite relates to Jesus Christ.


Is there any other possibility?


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iamnotaparakeet
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20 Dec 2009, 11:38 pm

leejosepho wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I think this passage quite relates to Jesus Christ.


Is there any other possibility?


Not really, though I'm certain Akiba interpreted it to death in his time. Hence why, in the JPS version, the words are transliterated rather than translated.



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21 Dec 2009, 12:16 am

So your contention is that this prophecy refers to Jesus, and that it supports claims that Jesus is in fact God (since he is called "mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace"). I agree with you here. I'll bring that verse up to a rather aggressive Muslim who's been preaching at me lately. (She mainly criticizes the Trinity and the idea of Jesus as God)


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leejosepho
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21 Dec 2009, 6:41 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I think this passage quite relates to Jesus Christ.


Is there any other possibility?


Not really, though I'm certain Akiba interpreted it to death in his time. Hence why, in the JPS version, the words are transliterated rather than translated.


The son of The Living Elohim could not have been born at Christmas ...

"And in the same country there were shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8)

That time of year is too cold for shepherds to be living out in the fields.


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Orwell
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21 Dec 2009, 10:59 am

leejosepho wrote:
"And in the same country there were shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8)

That time of year is too cold for shepherds to be living out in the fields.

Depends on where they are geographically and whether the climate was different then. Also, because of slight inaccuracies in our reckoning of time that have added up over the years, the birth of Jesus could conceivably have been in a different season than winter.


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ruveyn
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21 Dec 2009, 11:24 am

Orwell wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
"And in the same country there were shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8)

That time of year is too cold for shepherds to be living out in the fields.

Depends on where they are geographically and whether the climate was different then. Also, because of slight inaccuracies in our reckoning of time that have added up over the years, the birth of Jesus could conceivably have been in a different season than winter.


If you believe the narratives in the Gospels and know something about the climate in Israel, it would have been the middle of September. The early Christians co-opted the Saturnalia (the day of the winter solstice) for their celebration to make converts.

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21 Dec 2009, 11:35 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I would like to present Isaiah 9:1-7 in the KJV, JPS, and NIV for reading as I think this passage quite relates to Jesus Christ. It is,



Lesson 1. The KJV is a sh***y translation from the Hebrew. Lesson 2. The KJV is a sh***y translation from the Hebrew.

Here is the benchmark. Turn to Isiah 7:14 of a translation. If the word "virgin" occurs there, commit the translation to the flames.

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21 Dec 2009, 11:37 am

leejosepho wrote:

The son of The Living Elohim could not have been born at Christmas ...


The "virgin" Mary, aka Miriam, the Jewess, probably got knocked up by a Roman centurion.

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21 Dec 2009, 11:46 am

ruveyn wrote:
The "virgin" Mary, aka Miriam, the Jewess, probably got knocked up by a Roman centurion.

ruveyn

So, are you saying that a Roman centurion is God???



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21 Dec 2009, 1:00 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The "virgin" Mary, aka Miriam, the Jewess, probably got knocked up by a Roman centurion.

ruveyn

So, are you saying that a Roman centurion is God???


That would account for the blond hair and blue eyes always portrayed.


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ruveyn
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21 Dec 2009, 4:27 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The "virgin" Mary, aka Miriam, the Jewess, probably got knocked up by a Roman centurion.

ruveyn

So, are you saying that a Roman centurion is God???


That would account for the blond hair and blue eyes always portrayed.


Precisely! Arrrrgggghhh. Smart as paint ye arrre!

ruveyn



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21 Dec 2009, 4:42 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I would like to present Isaiah 9:1-7 in the KJV, JPS, and NIV for reading as I think this passage quite relates to Jesus Christ. It is,



Lesson 1. The KJV is a sh***y translation from the Hebrew. Lesson 2. The KJV is a sh***y translation from the Hebrew.

Here is the benchmark. Turn to Isiah 7:14 of a translation. If the word "virgin" occurs there, commit the translation to the flames.


That has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but here is the translation I use since I do not know Hebrew:

“Therefore Yahuah Himself gives you a sign: Look, the maiden conceives and gives birth to a Son, and shall call His Name Immanuel." (Isaiah 7:14)

And yes, that maiden conceived in the same way any other ever has.


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21 Dec 2009, 7:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The "virgin" Mary, aka Miriam, the Jewess, probably got knocked up by a Roman centurion.

ruveyn

So, are you saying that a Roman centurion is God???


That would account for the blond hair and blue eyes always portrayed.


Precisely! Arrrrgggghhh. Smart as paint ye arrre!

ruveyn


Arrrrrr! It be all the lead I ingested. It tights up dem brains! Arrrrg.


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iamnotaparakeet
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22 Dec 2009, 10:48 am

Orwell wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
"And in the same country there were shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8)

That time of year is too cold for shepherds to be living out in the fields.

Depends on where they are geographically and whether the climate was different then. Also, because of slight inaccuracies in our reckoning of time that have added up over the years, the birth of Jesus could conceivably have been in a different season than winter.


The matter of quantitatively when Jesus was born is quite irrelevant in my opinion. Whether December 25 or any other date.

The celebration of Jesus' birthday, as per the date chosen by the Roman church, is still about Jesus whether the date replaces a pagan holiday or is arbitrary.



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22 Dec 2009, 11:50 am

it replaces the Winter Solstice, or Yule
Jesus wasn't born on Christmas, even Christians will tell you that (smart ones)
when he was born the Star of David there appeared to those Wise Men and they began walking
takes a little while to walk, they weren't down the street
so when they made it there, he was already at least a month or two old
Christmas marks the day the 3 wise men came and gave their gifts to him