Anti-Semitism vs. Anti-Zionism

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Anti-Semites hate the Jews because they are Jews.Anti-Zionist criticize the actions of Israel not the Jewish religion.
However everyone that criticizes Israel is not an anti-Semite.
To accuse the action's of the people of Israel is not anti-Semitic.
Zionism is a political creed and must be treated like any other,
One can be anti-communist without being anti-Chinese. One can be anti-capitalist without being anti-American.
One can be anti -Zionist without being anti-semitic.

While I am quite pro-Israel myself and often people use anti-Zionism as cover for Antisemitism, I think there is some serious equivocation going on in this topic.

Anti Israeli sentiment is the Left's current cover for their annoyance with Jews. Since they are too cowardly to come out and say what they think, they disguise their sentiments with verbiage.

ruveyn

I only have issues when people trivialize the Hebrew experience or try to play God themselves.

1.I have nothing against people of the Jewish faith at all.
2.The treatment of the Palestinian people by people that call themselves "Zionists" is sick.
3. There are Jews that call themselves anti-Zionists. How can Jews be anti-Semitic?
4. There is a group of Jew called "Jews for Palestine". This group can see that the Zionist are wrong.
5. Killing innocent people and placing them in refugee camps is not very kind.
6.Not all Jews or Israelis are Zionists.
7. Conservatives blame the left for everything. The only reason why the right is defending the Zionists right now is because they hate the Muslims more.
8.I am an Eco-socialist and since I have socialist views I like all religions and races equally.
9. I don't have a problem with all of the Israeli people just the Zionist. Zionism is Jewish nationalism.
I hate all nationalism because I am an internationalist.

I don't get it. I don't see anything to be annoyed with Jews about. Perhaps I'm missing something. Apart from some of the Haredi Jews (who seem to be an irritating tiny minority of Jews, even in Israel), who seem to be every bit as obnoxious as their Islamist brethren, what's to dislike about Jewish people? Really, I must be missing something. Please tell me. Their food is generally very good and all the ones I've met are very normal, well-adjusted people - a bit too well-adjusted for my tastes given their specific familial circumstances - but well-adjusted nonetheless. They generally keep to themselves more often than not. They don't bother me much at all.

Please tell me what is meant to be so bad about Jews. I'm dying to know this one. Also, what is wrong with Israel? Because so many people dislike that country, I really want to visit now. Partly because so many Muslims and lefties hate it but mainly because so many people think it's so dangerous there. From what I hear of Israel it's filled mostly of lovely people... as long as you use your brains (the Israelis love freiers!).

Jews tend to be self absorbed and do not swell with love and compassion for ALL of Mankind. This rubs against the universalist tendencies of the Liberal Left. Liberal believe that the Good of Mankind should be the goal of all of us. I disagree. While I have no intention of harming mankind neither do I make the Good of Mankind my life's work.

ruveyn

So, just put this down for me ruveyn: Jews are hated because they basically keep to themselves and because they are successful? Is this right?

If so, I like the idea of what Jews stand for even more now.

Not a hundred percent, but that is near right. Jews tend to be charitable. They (actually we) think that if we can afford to we should give a hand where it is needed. But this not ucchy kind of bleeding heart Love that the Leftniks preach. The Lefties think we should live for the sake of others.

Here is what R. Hillel said 2200 years ago:

If I am not for myself, then who is for me?
If I am only for myself, then what am I?
If not now, then when?

That indicates the flavor of Jewish sentiment among many Jews.

ruveyn

So really, with a few exceptions, you're not that different from us?

It was this bit that grabbed me:

and:



The trick is in making sure that one fits between those two lines. The first one is especially important with regards to depression.

I think I understand the basic bit of Judiasm. If that's what it boils down to, it's more than welcome here. (I disagree with some bits, though, mainly the circumcision bit - can it be postponed 'til adulthood?)

Right, when can I get the next flight to Tel Aviv (I know that's not the real Israel, but...)

You thought we had horns?

ruveyn

That's a difficult question for me to answer.

Yeah, rams horns

@ Ruveyn, that's BS. There are more Jews in America than there are in Israel. It's not logically inconsistent to be just fine with American Jews but unhappy with the state of Israel, which happens to be Jewish.

I agree that anti-semitism sometimes dresses itself as anti-zionims (Chompsky comes imediately to mind), but the simple fact is that the ultra-orthodox have way too f*****g much power in Israel and they're dragging the whole country down with their fundamentalism.
This comes, btw, from someone whose life has been intertwined with Jews from childhood and whose family is half-Jewish, so don't you dare try to say that I somehow hate half of my family because of their ethnic origins.

edit:
also, http://jstreet.org/

Last edited by LKL on 14 Dec 2011, 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

By the way, the intention wasn't to wind you up, ruveyn.

When I said that I found that question difficult to answer is mainly becuase, rightly or wrongly, Jews are 'The Other'.

From what I see from my side you have some odd customs (to outsiders) but also some excellent food. What's not to like?

Also, can you get me a cheap hotel in Tel Aviv please?

Now, come on. How many Jews are there in the world? And how many live in Israel, the world's only Jewish state? I think you'll find that almost half the Jews in the entire world live in Israel.