Is Economic Superiority Due to Cultural Superiority?

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ArrantPariah
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31 Jul 2012, 2:28 pm

Mitt Romney has been at it again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/us/po ... wanted=all

Quote:

In the speech, Mr. Romney mentioned books that had influenced his thinking about nations — particularly “The Wealth and Poverty of Nations,” by David S. Landes, which, he said, argues that culture is the defining factor in determining the success of a society.

“Culture makes all the difference,” Mr. Romney said. “And as I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognize the power of at least culture and a few other things.”

He added, “As you come here and you see the G.D.P. per capita, for instance, in Israel, which is about $21,000, and compare that with the G.D.P. per capita just across the areas managed by the Palestinian Authority, which is more like $10,000 per capita, you notice such a dramatically stark difference in economic vitality. And that is also between other countries that are near or next to each other. Chile and Ecuador, Mexico and the United States.”

I think that he grossly understated the difference in GDP per capita between Israel and Palestine.

Do Mr. Romney's remarks have any justification? Or, is he being a "racist?"

ArrantPariah
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31 Jul 2012, 2:29 pm

Some more details from the article:

Quote:

In the West Bank, according to the C.I.A. World Factbook, “Israeli closure policies continue to disrupt labor and trade flows, industrial capacity, and basic commerce, eroding the productive capacity” of the economy.

In Gaza, the C.I.A. says, Israeli-imposed border closings “have resulted in high unemployment, elevated poverty rates, and the near collapse of the private sector that had relied on export markets.” The agency added that “changes to Israeli restrictions on imports in 2010 resulted in a rebound in some economic activity, but regular exports from Gaza still are not permitted.”

On Monday afternoon, Romney campaign officials did not respond to a query about whether Mr. Romney believes that trade restrictions in the West Bank or the blockade of Gaza had any dampening effect on economic activity in those areas.

ruveyn
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31 Jul 2012, 2:54 pm

See Nial Furgeson's views on that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpnFeyMGUs8

and

http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/blog/view/542

ruveyn

Jacoby
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31 Jul 2012, 2:57 pm

I'm not sure what cultural superiority entails. Superiority is a subjective term.

I would say there are certain cultural values that lend itself to 'economic superiority'.

ruveyn
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31 Jul 2012, 2:59 pm

Jacoby wrote:

I'm not sure what cultural superiority entails. Superiority is a subjective term.

I would say there are certain cultural values that lend itself to 'economic superiority'.

Furgeson's lectures deal with this in detail.

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YippySkippy
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31 Jul 2012, 3:01 pm

Right or wrong, I'm pretty impressed by Romney's frankness.
The question is, though, did he know what he was saying was so controversial?
If he knew, then it was rather brave (and a little stupid) of him to say it. If he didn't know, then he was just being stupid and gets no points for bravery.

Shatbat
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31 Jul 2012, 3:04 pm

Jacoby wrote:

I'm not sure what cultural superiority entails. Superiority is a subjective term.

I would say there are certain cultural values that lend itself to 'economic superiority'.

I'm with this one.

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naturalplastic
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31 Jul 2012, 3:23 pm

He is not a racist.

But he is too boneheaded to be a diplomat. The statement was too obtuse and simplistic for such a high tension part of the world. The reasons for the disparity in gdp between the two groups are complex. Lebanon had a comparable standard of living to Israel that was way above that of the arab neighbors of both Lebanon and of Israel until lebanon collapsed into its civil war in the seventies and eighties. Lebanon is split between muslim and christian with virtually no "jewish culture".

Mitt coulda said something less divisive like "when the jews and palestinians stop fighting both groups will have their productivity unleashed and a new Israel/palestine could emerge that might help pull the rest of the mideast forward economically like a locomotive."

He can praise Israel as long he doesnt seem to be denigrating anyone else.

Also - he is confused about geography.

Ecuador is not "next to" Chile.

Bolivia, and Peru, are Chile's impoverished next door neighbors. ecuador is a few hundred miles up the pacific coast from Chile.

HisDivineMajesty
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31 Jul 2012, 3:48 pm

Answering this question: yes. If economic superiority is defined as a larger economic output, that can be considered the result of certain attitudes towards new technology and work ethic. For example, the most protestant parts of Europe are currently in least economic peril, even though they're under threat now due to the international ponzi scheme they call the European Union. Japan had a frightening work ethic, but was isolated and self-centered. When they stopped being culturally isolationist to the point where foreigners weren't allowed to even visit most of the country, they suddenly became a major economic, political and military power in the region.

In summary: certain aspects of culture can be considered superior in that they produce superior economic output.

bizboy1
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31 Jul 2012, 3:49 pm

Yes, cultures are not equal. That is a myth perpetuated by multiculturalism.

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HisDivineMajesty
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31 Jul 2012, 4:27 pm

bizboy1 wrote:

Yes, cultures are not equal. That is a myth perpetuated by multiculturalism.

You could argue that they're semantically equal. However, if you introduce a desired outcome, you'll be much better off with some cultures than with others. If your goal is economic prosperity, then Asian culture would be the most logical choice at this moment. If your goal is tribalism and adherence to indigenous beliefs, you'll be best-suited in inland Africa. If your goal is rights for homosexuals and transsexuals, you'd be best off in Europe.

Jojoba
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31 Jul 2012, 4:45 pm

I've seen John Podhoretz write a little bit about this heated topic of late. I thought he made some nice points about the differences between the Israelis and Palestinians.

"Who’s Dependent? Israel or the Palestinians?"

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/ ... estinians/

excerpt from his article.

Quote:

I have a piece in the New York Post today that suggests only a liar or an insane person would deny that Israel benefits from a political culture far healthier than the corrupted and diseased culture of the Palestinian polities. You can read it here. Mitt Romney pointed out the wild disparity in GDP in the areas controlled by the Palestinians and those under Israeli dominion. Someone on Twitter commented that Israel is a “welfare state” living off the U.S. and we should see what would happen if it were cut off.

Well, let’s see. U.S. aid to Israel has remained steady around $3 billion a year since the signing of the Camp David Accords in 1979. It was set that high in part because Israel surrendered functional oil fields to Egypt when it gave back the Sinai and lost a significant source of income. In 1980, that aid was enormously important to Israel’s general health. It constituted something like one-seventh of the nation’s overall GDP ($22.8 billion). Flash forward to 2011. Israel’s GDP was $245 billion. U.S. aid constituted 1/81st of Israel’s GDP.

What’s more, almost all that aid is in the form of military assistance, much of it in the form of support for Israel’s Iron Dome missile-defense efforts, which have direct R&D implications for the United States. In other words, Israel is testing, under real-world conditions, equipment the U.S. may need to use later.

And the Palestinians? A 2012 report from the World Bank explains that its economic growth since 2006 is almost entirely in the form of money garnered from abroad, which goes to fund government activities. “most of the recent economic growth can be attributed to the large inflow of aid, which has funded government expenditures. This has skewed the economy towards the public sector and non-tradables. Public administration, defense and other mostly public services such as health, education, electricity and water grew from less than 20 percent of GDP in 1994 to more than 27 percent in 2010….The importance of aid cannot be overstated and by 2008 current transfers had risen to about US$3.4 billion, double what they were in 2006.”...

ArrantPariah
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31 Jul 2012, 5:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:

See Nial Furgeson's views on that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpnFeyMGUs8

and

http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/blog/view/542

ruveyn

Thanks for the videos. He explains his views quite well.

xenon13
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31 Jul 2012, 5:44 pm

What makes this particularly indecent is that Israel has been strangling the Palestinian economy at every opportunity. It's not unlike the comments of concentration camp commanders looking at their naked, starving charges and concluding that these manifestations prove that they must be inferior, thus they deserve this treatment... that is what they said.

JakobVirgil
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31 Jul 2012, 7:40 pm

Both are just value judgments. Neither economies nor cultures can not be reduced to a single variables and written in the form X>Y.
Perhaps if we have some criteria?

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Shatbat
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31 Jul 2012, 7:44 pm

Well, they say that USA has the most developed economy of the world, followed by China. There must be some criteria for that.

Also, I want to elaborare on the statements that some cultural values may help countries to have a better economy. During my year in Germany, I noticed first hand how their culture of following rules, being punctual, not leaving things to the last moment, and hard work made some things run much more efficient, and also better, than around here. Or Japan, which I don't know first hand, but work is very valued, tomthe point there is a word for dying from too much work stress in Japanese, which wouldn't be that good for personal enjoyment, but is surely helpful for their economy.

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