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xenon13
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24 Nov 2010, 5:19 pm

The Right has an effective media monopoly in much of the USA and have such a preponderance of media control so as to gain undeserved influence. The megaphone they use with the public airwaves is done to undermine civilisation and it's the duty of an uncorrupted government to fight this media machine. If the citizenry is not informed adequately it cannot even consider making good decisions, which is the whole point. The whole game is rigged - the candidates are vetted, the media is set up, for the purpose of ultimately building feudalism. In the old days moneyed interests used to care about their country somewhat but these days are over.

It is not the right of money to control discussion.



mcg
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24 Nov 2010, 6:39 pm

Yeah government control of the media is great.



ruveyn
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24 Nov 2010, 8:39 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The Right has an effective media monopoly in much of the USA and have such a preponderance of media control so as to gain undeserved influence. The megaphone they use with the public airwaves is done to undermine civilisation and it's the duty of an uncorrupted government to fight this media machine. If the citizenry is not informed adequately it cannot even consider making good decisions, which is the whole point. The whole game is rigged - the candidates are vetted, the media is set up, for the purpose of ultimately building feudalism. In the old days moneyed interests used to care about their country somewhat but these days are over.

It is not the right of money to control discussion.


There is no monopoly control of the "media". There can be no such thing given the blogs and the internet. News is wide open.

ruveyn



iamnotaparakeet
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24 Nov 2010, 8:41 pm

Having a democrat as president encourages them to vote republican. As for what makes them do that, IDK, perhaps a little mouse with a big head along with a sidekick which constantly says "Narf!".



techstepgenr8tion
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24 Nov 2010, 10:01 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
along with a sidekick which constantly says "Narf!".

Taylor Swift!?



pandabear
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25 Nov 2010, 12:09 am

skafather84 wrote:
WHAT MAKES PEOPLE VOTE REPUBLICAN?

What makes people vote Republican? Why in particular do working class and rural Americans usually vote for pro-business Republicans when their economic interests would seem better served by Democratic policies?


Because they are stupid. They simply copy their opinions from Rush Limbaugh. Remember: the USA is an educational backwater to begin with, and people who remain in the working class do so because of a lack of education.



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25 Nov 2010, 1:46 am

pandabear wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
WHAT MAKES PEOPLE VOTE REPUBLICAN?

What makes people vote Republican? Why in particular do working class and rural Americans usually vote for pro-business Republicans when their economic interests would seem better served by Democratic policies?


Because they are stupid. They simply copy their opinions from Rush Limbaugh. Remember: the USA is an educational backwater to begin with, and people who remain in the working class do so because of a lack of education.


I think the thing is that unlike corporations and private industry government doesn't advertise the good things it provides. People only see the bad. It seems we're only ever going to get s**t though if we only bury ourselves in cynicism. I guess I don't really see things improving in the US. Nobody wants to actually try to solve, or for that sake even acknowledge, the global problems we're going to face. Instead people just want to cling to their money and b***h about the government screwing everything up.



auntblabby
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25 Nov 2010, 1:53 am

pandabear wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
WHAT MAKES PEOPLE VOTE REPUBLICAN?

What makes people vote Republican? Why in particular do working class and rural Americans usually vote for pro-business Republicans when their economic interests would seem better served by Democratic policies?


Because they are stupid. They simply copy their opinions from Rush Limbaugh. Remember: the USA is an educational backwater to begin with, and people who remain in the working class do so because of a lack of education.


a enlightening book on the subject, is "what's the matter with kansas?" basically, the powers-that-be are playing rope-a-dope with the lower classes, using the usual diversionary tactics [god/guns/gays]. they will count on the fact that many working-class folk will vote against their own best economic and social best interests, as long as their perceived enemies [gay folk, people of color, "perverted white folk" and people even poorer than themselves] are thought to be getting punished as well. this is called "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face."



Inuyasha
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25 Nov 2010, 3:39 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The Right has an effective media monopoly in much of the USA and have such a preponderance of media control so as to gain undeserved influence. The megaphone they use with the public airwaves is done to undermine civilisation and it's the duty of an uncorrupted government to fight this media machine. If the citizenry is not informed adequately it cannot even consider making good decisions, which is the whole point. The whole game is rigged - the candidates are vetted, the media is set up, for the purpose of ultimately building feudalism. In the old days moneyed interests used to care about their country somewhat but these days are over.

It is not the right of money to control discussion.


xenon13, either you are being blatently dishonest or drinking the Kool-Aid. Most of the media is left-wing and usually votes for Democrats.

Left Wing Television Outlets
ABC
CBS
NBC
MSNBC
CNN
PBS - Yeah your tax dollars are funding a left wing outlet.

Right Wing Outlets
Fox News

Conservatives dominate the radio because the left can't really come up with a radio station that people are willing to listen to, the only left wing radio stations tend to be funded with tax dollars (see NPR)

Newspapers (most of them are left wing outlets with exception of Wall Street Journal and a few others, hell even my local paper has a blatent left wing slant)

And the Internet is pretty much a stalemate.

People try to come up with a BS idea that the media is a right wing propaganda machine because what they are really after is shutting down all sources that report from a conservative perspective. The biggest threat to our rights of free speech come from the left not the right.



techstepgenr8tion
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25 Nov 2010, 3:57 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
xenon13, either you are being blatently dishonest or drinking the Kool-Aid. Most of the media is left-wing and usually votes for Democrats.

Left Wing Television Outlets
ABC
CBS
NBC
MSNBC
CNN
PBS - Yeah your tax dollars are funding a left wing outlet.

Right Wing Outlets
Fox News

Conservatives dominate the radio because the left can't really come up with a radio station that people are willing to listen to, the only left wing radio stations tend to be funded with tax dollars (see NPR)

Newspapers (most of them are left wing outlets with exception of Wall Street Journal and a few others, hell even my local paper has a blatent left wing slant)

And the Internet is pretty much a stalemate.

People try to come up with a BS idea that the media is a right wing propaganda machine because what they are really after is shutting down all sources that report from a conservative perspective. The biggest threat to our rights of free speech come from the left not the right.

He really could just mean that every outlet in the U.S. is right of his beliefs. By that token Jerry Falwell could call Fox News liberal. Take it with as much salt as you wish.



Inuyasha
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25 Nov 2010, 4:06 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
xenon13, either you are being blatently dishonest or drinking the Kool-Aid. Most of the media is left-wing and usually votes for Democrats.

Left Wing Television Outlets
ABC
CBS
NBC
MSNBC
CNN
PBS - Yeah your tax dollars are funding a left wing outlet.

Right Wing Outlets
Fox News

Conservatives dominate the radio because the left can't really come up with a radio station that people are willing to listen to, the only left wing radio stations tend to be funded with tax dollars (see NPR)

Newspapers (most of them are left wing outlets with exception of Wall Street Journal and a few others, hell even my local paper has a blatent left wing slant)

And the Internet is pretty much a stalemate.

People try to come up with a BS idea that the media is a right wing propaganda machine because what they are really after is shutting down all sources that report from a conservative perspective. The biggest threat to our rights of free speech come from the left not the right.

He really could just mean that every outlet in the U.S. is right of his beliefs. By that token Jerry Falwell could call Fox News liberal. Take it with as much salt as you wish.


Okay, how can one be to the left of Michael Moore?



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25 Nov 2010, 4:51 pm

waltur wrote:
that's just the thing. he isn't saying that democrats need to become more conservative. he's saying that liberals and conservatives view things differently and that, for either side, a knee-jerk "i disagree, therefore you're wrong" reaction is unjustified. his specific examples, cited by inuyasha, are stereotypes of conservatives held by many liberals.

He seems to be saying that Democrats would do well to embrace the other domains of morality that he's researched on, the ones conservatives embrace.
Jonathan Haidt wrote:
The Democrats must find a way to close the sacredness gap that goes beyond occasional and strategic uses of the words "God" and "faith." Our national motto is e pluribus unum ("from many, one"). Whenever Democrats support policies that weaken the integrity and identity of the collective (such as multiculturalism, bilingualism, and immigration), they show that they care more about pluribus than unum. They widen the sacredness gap.

Okay, because I don't really want a homogeneous "real American" society, I am widening the "sacredness gap"? Yeah, I'm obviously one of those liberal atheists who doesn't put very much moral weight on in-group loyalty or deference to authority, but this is ridiculous. I would consider a move away from multiculturalism, multilingualism, and immigration as the wrong direction for Democrats, and a reason I vote for Democrats instead of Republicans is because I prefer the liberal worldview.

I don't feel as if the world as I know it is coming apart if I see someone from a different racial, ethnic, religious, or whatever background. I enjoy talking to people with differing points of view and experiences. I enjoy the diverse restaurants and cultural influences. That it unsettles some conservatives frankly means f**k-all to me.
Jonathan Haidt wrote:
Might the Democrats expand their moral range without betraying their principles? Might they even find ways to improve their policies by incorporating and publicly praising some conservative insights?

By conservative insights, I guess he means their heightened respect for authority (but we remember Joe Wilson shouting, "You lie!" while the President was addressing a joint session of Congress), in-group loyalty, and purity/sanctity. But again it's two competing worldviews: I don't concern myself over "purity" with sexual liberties; I just see it as not the government's role. Should we be understanding of anti-gay or anti-sexual freedom legislators, or should we shame them?
Jonathan Haidt wrote:
Democrats should think carefully, therefore, about why they celebrate diversity. If the purpose of diversity programs is to fight racism and discrimination (worthy goals based on fairness concerns), then these goals might be better served by encouraging assimilation and a sense of shared identity.

I've already elaborated on my disagreement on this above.
Jonathan Haidt wrote:
Democrats would do well to read Durkheim and think about the quasi-religious importance of the criminal justice system.

So law-and-order conservatives see crime and punishment as an almost religious matter. I find rehabilitation more humane and socially (that's the unum in e pluribus, unum) effective than throwing marijuana users and nonviolent offenders away in prison where they'll come out hardened criminals.

I mean it does sound like this guy wants the Democrats to become more conservative because he thinks it will capture more votes based on his morality theory. Whether it means the best policies for the United States, he doesn't really consider here.



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25 Nov 2010, 5:54 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
xenon13, either you are being blatently dishonest or drinking the Kool-Aid.

Xenon is an extreme leftist. Probably the farthest-left on WP, ignoring the actual Marxists.

Quote:
The biggest threat to our rights of free speech come from the left not the right.

I disagree. The right-wingers I have encountered are much more willing to submit to authoritarian measures in the bogus name of "security." Left-wingers are more consistently opposed to censorship and other civil rights abuses, even willing to oppose their own political representatives on those issues.

Quote:
Okay, how can one be to the left of Michael Moore?

Quite easily. I know several people farther left than Moore. And of course anyone who is actually a socialist or communist would be much farther left than Moore.


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techstepgenr8tion
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25 Nov 2010, 10:26 pm

Orwell wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Quote:
Okay, how can one be to the left of Michael Moore?

Quite easily. I know several people farther left than Moore. And of course anyone who is actually a socialist or communist would be much farther left than Moore.


Lol, this, and it doesn't mean that they're necessarily playing as crooked as Moore or making as many heavily edited or wholly fabricated images. They might just be straight out with their belief that all people should be equal - even if all in squalor - because that's a far superior world in their eyes, or that having no standing army would be a great goal because this way we'd let the world pass us and if other cultures wanted to have mass genocides, great, freedom and human rights are a cultural thing. I had a friend who once dated a girl for a few days who said that America was an evil empire, that it needed another 9/11, and said that she wanted to move to a superior place - her example was India, I have a coworker who's been over there as his wife is Indian, he had a good laugh on that one, the girl is in Australia now and I almost feel bad for the Aussies who have to listen her and wonder where they can scare up Paris Hilton from for a better intellectual conversation. There are people who believe things like that, I don't get it, I think the closest I may ever come to understanding it is in a clinical/psychiatric sense or knowing perhaps what happened to them in their lives to make them think that way - that's about it.



xenon13
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25 Nov 2010, 10:39 pm

The media is almost all corporate-owned. There are some people who help broaden the discussion somewhat, people like Olbermann, but there really is a narrow range of discussion with the traditional media. Then you have the massive right wing complex of talk radio and Fox News, a massive operation. They control the airwaves in most jurisdictions. Then of course you have the crazy preachers. It's insanely one-sided.

It's not a right of these right wing demagogues to control radio. That must be ended... NOW! I'd shut them down tomorrow if I had the power. Remember it's not their airwaves.



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25 Nov 2010, 11:08 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Lol, this, and it doesn't mean that they're necessarily playing as crooked as Moore or making as many heavily edited or wholly fabricated images. They might just be straight out with their belief that all people should be equal - even if all in squalor - because that's a far superior world in their eyes, or that having no standing army would be a great goal because this way we'd let the world pass us and if other cultures wanted to have mass genocides, great, freedom and human rights are a cultural thing.

OK, I'm with you on Moore being dishonest and a complete hack, but please refrain from the ridiculous straw men. Plenty of people hold leftist, even extremely far-left viewpoints, without supporting the idiotic stances you ascribe to them.


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