In a socialist society everyone is equal

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Well, it's better than the treatment you'd get in the Soviet Union, or Communist China...

So you're for a fascist dictatorship, huh? Because a lot of these individuals were/are Vietnam war draftees who had no choice. Punishing the oppressed for being oppressed is kind of terrible.

In a socialist society some are more equal than others. The leaders for instance. Somehow their "equal shares" are larger than the average "equal share". I wonder why?

ruveyn

In a capitalist society it's okay to oppress as long as the rich taxpayers don't get punished.

Sorry for jumping in without reading the whole thread.

I was recently at a dinner party with a Russian immigrant, who started work back in the communist days.

His comments were interesting. Under the structure, it is not that everyone actually was equal, but that they had to be treated equally.

So he was a young and excited computer guy eager to prove his worth, while a co-worker literally slugged off all aspects of the work, and read a book most of the day. They got the same pay, and the same bonus. His answer? Apply his energy outside of work, stop caring at work, and take the first job offer out of the country possible.

The man is brilliant and currently one of the top guys at a local start up.

I personally think a little regulated capitalism, a system that emphasizes an attempt at fairness while having active rules against destructive greed, is the better answer. Very difficult to get right, I know that, and the scales constantly need adjusting, but there can be a sweet spot there.

By saying so, you're saying you want poor and rich people to exist.

I work at a software company, but did not go to college. I make an average of 25% less than the most lowly master's graduate there. Why? Because I didn't go to college, but I did work retail for the previous 7 years--guess which I would've rather done. However, I'm given higher priority projects and get my work done faster and more efficiently than my peers (I look over my shoulder, always web browsing). But I don't care.

People need to drop their sense of entitlement, dump their pride, and sack up to be ready for the changes all of us need to make--this whole environmental-political problem is one and the same problem. We can't survive with corporations trying to make a profit--where's the stopping point? Is there a cap on the number of square feet of concrete that's laid down? A limit to the number of rain forests to be chopped down? Are we going to stop when the North Pole starts melting--oh wait that's already toast. As long as you're making money for the sake of making money, this will always be the end case. We need to start meeting needs with the appropriate means.

We actually have to stop driving, manufacturing millions of computers, mass-producing every commodity under the sun, and start working with nature to make this whole sustainability thing happen because right now we are literally killing the planet. We will be judged by our children only, only by the physical condition of this Earth.

And I don't say this with a light heart, I'm a software engineer! This is my living which means I have more to lose than a lot of people, its everything I do! And I'm not some nature-obsessed hippie! But I'm not going to plead ignorance to these basic things we have to do. There is no other choice and we're running out of time. It's hard to accept, but those are the facts!

this also happens in capitalist societies, though. and besides, state ownership of the economy doesn't equal socialism.

[quote="whiteofmouth"]

We actually have to stop driving, manufacturing millions of computers, mass-producing every commodity under the sun, and start working with nature to make this whole sustainability thing happen because right now we are literally killing the planet. /quote]

The planet is doomed and has been so since it was formed. When the sun turns nasty we are all cooked, human and non-human alike.

ruveyn

Well because I was just making a general statement about those kinds of things......I figured if I got too specific people would be wanting sources they consider valid ect and I did not exactly have the time to go dig up such sources. But yes what you describe is what I was getting at.

How so? Being homeless and not knowing where you're going to get your next meal or possibly shelter for the night is probably not very fun........and probably not a whole lot better then what they would get in the soviet union or China.

and China does not have a communist system so its pointless to call it Communist China.

it's well known and accepted history. and it's not a matter of resource wars. democratic governments were overthrown and dictators installed by america in order to enforce capitalism, while hunderds of thousands were imprisoned and murdered.

Yes I know, sorry for not wording it that way I guess.........but yeah that is the sort of thing I was trying to describe.

and that's a justification not to care? not to do anything? the sun isn't going anywhere for a long time. i don't believe complacency to be a virtue.

Of course I care. I see to my personal interests and good. So do you. You look after your interests and your good.

ruveyn