Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

I have converted to atheism

Page 8 of 15 [ 227 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 15  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

snapcap
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,328

05 Apr 2012, 11:39 am

NarcissusSavage wrote:

A skeptic can go in and out of belief; this is true (although generally speaking, the individual skeptic would more aptly change descriptors in the process, skeptic --> believer etc). You cannot see how that is possible, I think that is by now well established that you do not understand holding a non-belief, or the rejection of belief completely. But the part of this whole debate you keep failing to understand...you don't have to understand how someone else thinks for them to think that way....


I don't see them as going in and out of belief, they just have varying degrees of it, with their position switched from time to time.

Quote:
You get to think however you do it. If you can grasp a concept I can't grasp, I'm not going to argue with you that your mind simply isn't capable of that. I'm not going to presume to have more understanding of your mind than you do!! That is absurd!! !


Saying that your position is a lack of belief, just like this bowl of oats I'm eating, is absurd. You can believe that you don't have one but that is still your belief.

Quote:
I know my mind rather well. I don’t expect you to know that, because it's my mind. I put self awareness and metacognition very high up on my list of priorities in life. I'm the world's leading expert on my own thoughts...


I'm not an expert on your thoughts, I never said that. I'm saying that it's impossible to have a lack of belief.

Quote:
So you really need to re-evaluate your position. You really need to consider the idea that you don't know what is in my mind. I've told you how I think, others have as well. Guess what? They are each, the world expert of their thoughts. You think you somehow know their thoughts better than they do???


I have re-evaluated my position. I still think it's absurd to think someone can have a lack of belief, like concepts don't phase you at all, or someone could tell you about something, and your brain has the ability to stay the same like they never told you in the first place. It's a violation of reality.

Quote:
Whether you like it, understand it, or will concede on this or not is irrelevant really. I am capable of hold a non-belief. I am capable of not believing something's existence while still not believing its nonexistence. You can't? That's fine, have fun with that all you want. But I can. And I know many other people who can as well.


I could possibly change my stance, but for now, I believe that it's not possible to lack a belief. I'm pretty close to saying that I know that as a fact, because it seems to me to be a violation of causality. Like it never happened...like the same reason a tree cannot be anything but an atheist because you can't tell a tree anything.

We can agree to disagree, but I will not say atheism has gone to the dogs (except jokingly :lol: )


_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*

some atheist to stick: "You're like me!"


blunnet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,053

05 Apr 2012, 11:45 am

snapcap wrote:
I don't see how a "skeptical" can go in and out of belief. To me, saying that you've lost your position after having one is like saying you lost your virginity and then gained it back.

But I gained back my virginity, and my beliefs are a bit conflicting.

Quote:
Some people's beliefs change as the supporting evidence or their knowledge of supporting evidence does.

as well as psychological reasons due to personal experiences.



snapcap
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,328

05 Apr 2012, 11:46 am

Rocky wrote:

Who could believe in what?


Someone believing anything. I was referring to your statement that someone that is skeptical doesn't necessarily believe the opposite of a claim. But remember, I still don't think someone can be purely skeptical.

Quote:
I wanted to keep the scenario as simple as possible. Let's pretend he didn't change back and that he was named "Not So Skeptic." That way we can focus on the point.


I understand what you're saying. The skeptical didn't have a position, then had one, then didn't have one again.

But I don't think that someone's belief can recess back into oblivion. Once the concept was processed, a position was formed, even if not very well.

I'd still call the skeptic the "pliable believer" because he is still the most pliable, even if they didn't return to their position of non-belief in the existence of God.


_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*

some atheist to stick: "You're like me!"


01001011
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Mar 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 991

05 Apr 2012, 11:48 am

snapcap wrote:
I have re-evaluated my position. I still think it's absurd to think someone can have a lack of belief, like concepts don't phase you at all, or someone could tell you about something, and your brain has the ability to stay the same like they never told you in the first place. It's a violation of reality.



You are just begging the question by assuming there is a concept to begin with. Can I not have the positive belief that the other person is just uttering meaningless nonsense and therefore does not convey any concept at all?



snapcap
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,328

05 Apr 2012, 11:51 am

01001011 wrote:
snapcap wrote:
I have re-evaluated my position. I still think it's absurd to think someone can have a lack of belief, like concepts don't phase you at all, or someone could tell you about something, and your brain has the ability to stay the same like they never told you in the first place. It's a violation of reality.



You are just begging the question by assuming there is a concept to begin with. Can I not have the positive belief that the other person is just uttering meaningless nonsense and therefore does not convey any concept at all?


You can believe that it is, you'd still be an atheist, but not for the same reason a tree is.

"I believe that God doesn't exist because the concept of God seems ludicrous."

There's your affirmation.


_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*

some atheist to stick: "You're like me!"


01001011
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Mar 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 991

05 Apr 2012, 11:53 am

snapcap wrote:
01001011 wrote:
snapcap wrote:
I have re-evaluated my position. I still think it's absurd to think someone can have a lack of belief, like concepts don't phase you at all, or someone could tell you about something, and your brain has the ability to stay the same like they never told you in the first place. It's a violation of reality.



You are just begging the question by assuming there is a concept to begin with. Can I not have the positive belief that the other person is just uttering meaningless nonsense and therefore does not convey any concept at all?


You can believe that it is, you'd still be an atheist, but not for the same reason a tree is.

"I believe that God doesn't exist because the concept of God seems ludicrous."

There's your affirmation.


Wrong. There is no concept of 'god'. Both 'God exists' and 'God does not exist' are nonsense. They are not even wrong.



snapcap
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,328

05 Apr 2012, 11:58 am

01001011 wrote:
snapcap wrote:
01001011 wrote:
snapcap wrote:
I have re-evaluated my position. I still think it's absurd to think someone can have a lack of belief, like concepts don't phase you at all, or someone could tell you about something, and your brain has the ability to stay the same like they never told you in the first place. It's a violation of reality.



You are just begging the question by assuming there is a concept to begin with. Can I not have the positive belief that the other person is just uttering meaningless nonsense and therefore does not convey any concept at all?


You can believe that it is, you'd still be an atheist, but not for the same reason a tree is.

"I believe that God doesn't exist because the concept of God seems ludicrous."

There's your affirmation.


Wrong. There is no concept of 'god'. Both 'God exists' and 'God does not exist' are nonsense. They are not even wrong.


Yes there is. Now you can't tell me that we've been talking about nothing this entire time. Don't you feel kind of silly admitting you've been talking about nothing?


_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*

some atheist to stick: "You're like me!"


01001011
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Mar 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 991

05 Apr 2012, 12:03 pm

We have talking about nothing beacuse there is somebody ELSE who is ignorance / delusional and think what she utter is actually meaningful.



ValentineWiggin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,907
Location: Beneath my cat's paw

05 Apr 2012, 12:08 pm

blunnet wrote:
snapcap wrote:
I don't see how a "skeptical" can go in and out of belief. To me, saying that you've lost your position after having one is like saying you lost your virginity and then gained it back.

But I gained back my virginity, and my beliefs are a bit conflicting.

Quote:
Some people's beliefs change as the supporting evidence or their knowledge of supporting evidence does.

as well as psychological reasons due to personal experiences.


Uh, yeah, that falls under (what they consider to be) EVIDENCE.


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


snapcap
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,328

05 Apr 2012, 12:09 pm

01001011 wrote:
We have talking about nothing beacuse there is somebody ELSE who is ignorance / delusional and think what she utter is actually meaningful.


Well, it's something that has been with us for a long time, that has helped fuse societies together into civilizations and has a portion of the brain that lights up when reacting to it.

You have to give a lot of credit to nothing.


_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*

some atheist to stick: "You're like me!"


Last edited by snapcap on 05 Apr 2012, 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ValentineWiggin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,907
Location: Beneath my cat's paw

05 Apr 2012, 12:09 pm

01001011 wrote:
We have talking about nothing beacuse there is somebody ELSE who is ignorance / delusional and think what she utter is actually meaningful.


Buh...I'm the last female poster in this thread. Who is this elusive "she", pray tell?


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


ValentineWiggin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,907
Location: Beneath my cat's paw

05 Apr 2012, 12:10 pm

snapcap wrote:
01001011 wrote:
We have talking about nothing beacuse there is somebody ELSE who is ignorance / delusional and think what she utter is actually meaningful.


Well, it has been something with us for a long time, that has helped fuse societies together into civilizations and has a portion of the brain that lights up when reacting to it.

You have to give a lot of credit to nothing.

Religion has destroyed as many civilizations as it's "fused together", if not more.
The brain "lights up" during a whole bunch of things, and none of them imply a god.

I'm still waiting for reasoning as to why I can't disbelieve two opposite, unevidenced assertions simultaneously.

Hint:
Repeating ad nauseum that I only "believe" that I disbelieve isn't reasoning.


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


01001011
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Mar 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 991

05 Apr 2012, 12:13 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
01001011 wrote:
We have talking about nothing beacuse there is somebody ELSE who is ignorance / delusional and think what she utter is actually meaningful.


Buh...I'm the last female poster in this thread. Who is this elusive "she", pray tell?


I refer to all people who preach the non-idea of 'god'.



ValentineWiggin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,907
Location: Beneath my cat's paw

05 Apr 2012, 12:15 pm

01001011 wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
01001011 wrote:
We have talking about nothing beacuse there is somebody ELSE who is ignorance / delusional and think what she utter is actually meaningful.


Buh...I'm the last female poster in this thread. Who is this elusive "she", pray tell?


I refer to all people who preach the non-idea of 'god'.


That's non-sensical, but ooookaay.


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


snapcap
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,328

05 Apr 2012, 12:20 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Religion has destroyed as many civilizations as it's "fused together", if not more.
The brain "lights up" during a whole bunch of things, and none of them imply a god.


I'm sorry VDub, but that response was for the guy that says the concept of God is nothing. Are you defending their position?

Quote:
I'm still waiting for reasoning as to why I can't disbelieve two opposite, unevidenced assertions simultaneously.

Hint:
Repeating ad nauseum that I only "believe" that I disbelieve isn't reasoning.


You can believe that you can't, but it does bother me that you tell me that you have the same position as a brick.

You're an atheist because you've heard of the concept of God, and you believe it to be bologna because you feel the concept is lacking.

You're not an atheist because you lack the concept of God to consider.


_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*

some atheist to stick: "You're like me!"


blunnet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,053

05 Apr 2012, 12:24 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Uh, yeah, that falls under (what they consider to be) EVIDENCE.

To some people, yes, unfortunately.