Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Che Guevara: Hero or Villan?

Page 8 of 12 [ 179 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

09 Jun 2012, 8:22 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I share ethnicity with Martin Luther. And his only "crime" as a revolutionary was his embittered Anti-Semitic writing in later life. But from the way people write about it today, you'd think the old man had transported himself through time to Nazi Germany, and was personally shoving Jews into gas chambers!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That is so true.



puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

09 Jun 2012, 8:38 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Laconvivencia wrote:
Many people see Che Guevara in many different way. some people portray Che as a hero like in Cuba and Argentina while The Miami Cuban community whos lives were destroyed by Castro portray him as a villan. I think Che Guevara is very much like Oliver Cromwell. To the British, Oliver Cromwell was a hero while to the Irish, he was a villan. Please put in your thoughts about Che Guevara.
I am going to go with moron.

I think that his death may as well be the only positive contribution my country has made to the world.


The Diablada parade has been called a 'Masterpiece of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity' by UNESCO, couldn't you go with that?
By killing Che, you guys made a martyr of him.


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 122
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

09 Jun 2012, 8:42 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOuTGUosMIs[/youtube]



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Jun 2012, 8:43 pm

Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I share ethnicity with Martin Luther. And his only "crime" as a revolutionary was his embittered Anti-Semitic writing in later life. But from the way people write about it today, you'd think the old man had transported himself through time to Nazi Germany, and was personally shoving Jews into gas chambers!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That is so true.


Thank you. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



AstroGeek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,582

09 Jun 2012, 8:45 pm

This is me being weird, but I think that Che Guevera would have been a very interesting person for Tim Rice to write a musical about. Che and Rosa Luxemburg (obviously not in the same musical).



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

09 Jun 2012, 8:45 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Laconvivencia wrote:
Many people see Che Guevara in many different way. some people portray Che as a hero like in Cuba and Argentina while The Miami Cuban community whos lives were destroyed by Castro portray him as a villan. I think Che Guevara is very much like Oliver Cromwell. To the British, Oliver Cromwell was a hero while to the Irish, he was a villan. Please put in your thoughts about Che Guevara.
I am going to go with moron.

I think that his death may as well be the only positive contribution my country has made to the world.


The Diablada parade has been called a 'Masterpiece of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity' by UNESCO, couldn't you go with that?
I think even a Gibbon's fart can get such award.


Quote:
By killing Che, you guys made a martyr of him.

He was bound to be made a martyr anyway.


_________________
.


Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

09 Jun 2012, 8:52 pm

Atheists have made a lot of martyrs.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

09 Jun 2012, 8:52 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
marshall wrote:
Neither. He just was. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I'd say the rise of such revolutionaries was pretty much an inevitable consequence when democratic avenues to functional leadership were suppressed by the ruling class. Extremist Marxism itself is the bastard child of the brutish excesses of 19th century style industrial capitalism and colonialist exploitation.

I guess that is my basic view on him. But I am still incredibly critical of much of what he did.

There's no doubt he was an extremist ideologue and once people get pushed into that realm they tend to lose touch with humanity to some degree. It seems like this was the main problem with a lot of Marxist revolutionaries. They all went from fighting for social justice to fighting for ideological purity to the point of insanity.

I'm equally critical, if not more critical, of the right wing reactionary regimes these people were fighting. The US government had no business arming and supporting them.



ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 122
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

09 Jun 2012, 8:52 pm

Image



puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

09 Jun 2012, 8:53 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
He was bound to be made a martyr anyway.


No more so than Castro.

Vexcalibur wrote:
I think even a Gibbon's fart can get such award.


Maybe I should be proud that my country doesn't have one, then.


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.


Last edited by puddingmouse on 09 Jun 2012, 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

09 Jun 2012, 8:55 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
He was bound to be made a martyr anyway.


No more so than Castro.


Castro and Che both had to do things for the better of Cuba.



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

09 Jun 2012, 8:55 pm

Quote:
No more so than Castro.
Che was going to be killed by Castro's friends eventually.

Quote:
I'm equally critical, if not more critical, of the right wing reactionary regimes these people were fighting. The US government had no business arming and supporting them.

Surely.

But I am still going to go that I am glad Che died. He is not even that much of a martyr now than a cartoon. But if alive he could have caused tons of deaths in here and / or a nuclear crisis (just like he did in Cuba).


_________________
.


Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

09 Jun 2012, 8:58 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Quote:
No more so than Castro.
Che was going to be killed by Castro's friends eventually.

Quote:
I'm equally critical, if not more critical, of the right wing reactionary regimes these people were fighting. The US government had no business arming and supporting them.

Surely.

But I am still going to go that I am glad Che died. He is not even that much of a martyr now than a cartoon. But if alive he could have caused tons of deaths in here and / or a nuclear crisis (just like he did in Cuba).


Joker wrote:
Atheists have made a lot of martyrs.
Wow, aren't you full of sh** today?


Not really many heathen nations that had not religion killed many atheists and FWI Stalin made plenty of martyrs as did Pol Pot and Mao all three atheists.



puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

09 Jun 2012, 9:04 pm

Joker wrote:

Not really many heathen nations that had not religion killed many atheists and FWI Stalin made plenty of martyrs as did Pol Pot and Mao all three atheists.


None of whom did so in the name of atheism. They just happened to be atheists.

It's like you're saying Genghis Khan pillaged and burned all those cities in the name of Mongolian shamanism.

Whereas the Inquistions, the Crusades, and modern Wahhabist jihad is actually done 'in the name of' the Abrahamic God.

Now, let's get back on topic.


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.


Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

09 Jun 2012, 9:06 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Joker wrote:

Not really many heathen nations that had not religion killed many atheists and FWI Stalin made plenty of martyrs as did Pol Pot and Mao all three atheists.


None of whom did so in the name of atheism. They just happened to be atheists.

It's like you're saying Genghis Khan pillaged and burned all those cities in the name of Mongolian shamanism.

Whereas the Inquistions, the Crusades, and modern Wahhabist jihad is actually done 'in the name of' the Abrahamic God.

Now, let's get back on topic.


They still made martyrs



AstroGeek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,582

09 Jun 2012, 9:07 pm

marshall wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
marshall wrote:
Neither. He just was. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I'd say the rise of such revolutionaries was pretty much an inevitable consequence when democratic avenues to functional leadership were suppressed by the ruling class. Extremist Marxism itself is the bastard child of the brutish excesses of 19th century style industrial capitalism and colonialist exploitation.

I guess that is my basic view on him. But I am still incredibly critical of much of what he did.

There's no doubt he was an extremist ideologue and once people get pushed into that realm they tend to lose touch with humanity to some degree. It seems like this was the main problem with a lot of Marxist revolutionaries. They all went from fighting for social justice to fighting for ideological purity to the point of insanity.

I'm equally critical, if not more critical, of the right wing reactionary regimes these people were fighting. The US government had no business arming and supporting them.

I guess I feel more of a need to be critical of the left-wing since that is where I fall on the political spectrum. I don't want those sorts of tragedies to happen again if a left-wing group comes to power somewhere so it is important to keep in mind where things have gone wrong before.