On punching Nazis

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Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Exactly.

And yet...

I imagine a lot of people who leave muslim countries to come to America or go to European countries are probably trying to get away from that not instate it in those places.

Well perhaps they shouldn't encourage political violence against groups of people out side white Christian conservatives. I don't condone going up and hitting some random neo-nazi, but if they're verbally and/or physically harassing you or others then yes I fully support whatever person punches them in the face.

That hardly justifies all violence resulting at all from politics. And out of curiosity you think it would be so wrong to punch an islamic extremist sympathizer if they were spewing a bunch of extremist bullcrap at you? Would the rights figurative heart be figuratively bleeding so much for that hypothetical extremist?

“Eomer said, 'How is a man to judge what to do in such times?'
As he has ever judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and evil have not changed since yesteryear, nor are they one thing among Elves and another among Men.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

... I stand by my previous post.

^It wasn't meant as a serious counterargument-as my previous posts hopefully made clear, I agree with you.

I was just seizing on the opportunity to introduce that bit from Woody Allen.

Thank you for explaining.
I've rarely ventured into the more political parts of WP,
and am still getting used to it.

I'm sorry but you are talking out of your rear.

Muslims are not ghettoized, and there are much bigger minority than in the US due to historic connections. Please get your facts right.

Also you even got the culture and traditions bit wrong too. There are those elder who adhere to traditional culture, and younger that fit into modern society, then you have the youngster whoa re a little be confused and don't fit in either.

There areas where there is separation it is largely through choice much like areas of Detroit which are Somali. However like Detroit these area have had economic decline and are former industrial towns.

However the vast majority of Muslims are not isolated even if they choose to live in areas where their culture is more prevalent. This is no different and less distinct than a China town.

The people who are the most isolated are those that don't speak English like some Imams.

Well, forgive me for talking out of my butt. Perhaps I am thinking of France, or some other continental country where Muslims are shunned by the native society.

Islam is an ideology that is deserving of criticism, this is not the same as discriminating against Muslims.

However there is a point to be said about moral consistency.

There are two type of moderates:
1. those that don't practice but make excuse an appease intolerant and imoral ideas.
2. those that acknowledge the need for reform

Reformist are rare becuase of the instance of immutable word (if only they would actual bother to read it) and monolithic faith.

I have more respect for Ahmadiyya, but the rest not so much.

There is a lot of sectarianism. So a Shia like Barchan will blame it on the Sunnis as she has done before. There is point there but it is not lie the Shia don't have their own problems too.

Any rights only extend as far as they won't interfere with another's so nobody has protection against being offended.

I have less respect and sympathy for those that don't acknowledge problematic doctrine.

Reformists are actually everywhere imaginable. Even in Iran the Green movement has at least 30% of the public's support and that has fought against Iran's oppressive policies and denial of the Holocaust. As much as their are extremists their are so many Muslims on our side and we need to help them. The way to do that as by not alienating them and forcing more Muslims to side with the extremists.

I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

I'm talking about theological reformist, such as a reform mosques. Ahmadiyya for instance. There are few of those that identify as such. There hasn't been an Islamic reformation like there was in Christianity and Judaism. Nobody is being forced to side with extremists. People choose that path becuase it appeals to them.

Also most of the tensions are internal. There has been infighting since the the battle of Battle of Karbala 680AD.

It is unwise to stir them up but they don't need much to set them off. Tensions have to exist to be stired up, it is about time they also owned the problem.

Aren't Muslims who are into Sufi mysticism of a reformist bent?

I think if we want change in the Islamic world we should make our campaign more about individual issues rather than about the changing the Islamic faith. For example I think we should campaign for women's rights in states such as Saudi Arabia and Arabia but shouldn't criticize the Islamic faith when we do that since it just alienates people. Their are examples of this working for instance the Pakistani female Prime Minister was elected on the grounds of getting rid of laws that oppress women however if she had criticized the Islamic faith she wouldn't have been elected.

So you know what I think, I believe we should criticize governments of Saudi Arabia and Iran but we can't criticize Islam that will alienate people when we need their cooperation.