Why aren't we allowed to preach about homosexuality?

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DarthMetaKnight
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29 Jul 2017, 5:48 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

I'm actually finding it reassuring that this ridiculous and unfounded thread is being thoroughly flamed, as it should be. Maybe there is hope for this place after all. :wink:

There is always hope.

Never give up.

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The_Walrus
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29 Jul 2017, 6:49 pm

Chichikov wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Parts of Leviticus are only aimed at priests

You are correct in that, the bit you quoted refers to priests though which is what I was getting at.

No it doesn't. All of Leviticus 18 is aimed at Israelites generally.

I already quoted the opening, which makes it clear that Moses is to give these commandments to all Israelites. Here is the ending (KJV):

Quote:

Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.

I personally do not put any stock in the Bible's moral guidance - I do not see why I should follow rules made up by people who lived thousands of years ago - but it's impossible to deny that the Bible forbids male homosexuality. Christianity as practised today rarely actually offers the death penalty for homosexuality, and that's definitely an unqualified good. Like all other ideologies, religions are better when they admit their mistakes and try to learn and improve.

jrjones9933
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29 Jul 2017, 7:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

It's a lot more that men (and even more so at that time) have a hard time conceiving of sexuality that doesn't exist for their benefit and interests or on their terms. The idea of women wanting sex or pursuing sex or interacting with sexuality in anyway that wasn't imposed upon them was unthinkably radical for the Israelites, Greeks and all the other classical era patriarchal barbarians.

I thought that the Greeks believed that women had an irrepressible interest in sex. They confined them to home, just like modern Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

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jrjones9933
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29 Jul 2017, 7:20 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

Chichikov wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Parts of Leviticus are only aimed at priests

You are correct in that, the bit you quoted refers to priests though which is what I was getting at.

No it doesn't. All of Leviticus 18 is aimed at Israelites generally.

Regardless of the intent, modern xians use that book to attack gay people.

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29 Jul 2017, 7:34 pm

So if gay marrige should not be recognized by the church, I would imagine the same applies to non-christian ceremonies. Perhaps some gay couples should look to that, who needs Christianity to get married anyways.

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Chichikov
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29 Jul 2017, 8:03 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

No it doesn't. All of Leviticus 18 is aimed at Israelites generally.

Not the part you quoted.

Putting that aside though...if The Bible was against homosexuality the way people think, then why has it come down to discussing one line among 1,000 pages and who that line is aimed at? Given the importance people place on this don't you think it would be more explicit than that? Why are you cherry picking this one line and ignoring everything else in that section of Leviticus?

Let's dive a little deeper even still. You're a moderator on a thread that DarthMetaKnight has repeatedly trolled and tried to derail and you've done nothing about it, so I can only come to the conclusion that you support trolling, that you see no value in proper discourse, so maybe you're just trolling too?

Lintar
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29 Jul 2017, 8:14 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

Soon your local, old, bearded, robed guy will be telling you: "GOD likes LGBT".

Then what will you do?

List of Christian denominations affirming LGBT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... rming_LGBT

Completely ignore him (or her, if it's a priestess).

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29 Jul 2017, 8:22 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

Lintar wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Homophobia's not enough for this thread, gotta throw in some Islamaphobia too. What a joke.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. Islam is inherently dangerous, so it is NOT irrational to fear (and in my case, loathe) it.

What I said was true. Christians and Muslims do NOT worship the same God. Deal with it.

The god of the old testament is pretty much where Islam gets most of their ideas. Where do think they go the ideas to stone an behead from?

Christians and Muslims are Abrahamic. I happen to believe the Jesus movement was more political than religious, it is just it was not subversive enough.

It is funny this is turning to a debate which set of bad system morality is better when they both stink.

Beheading does not appear as a punishment for anything in the Old Testament. By the way, it doesn't appear in the Quran either, so I.S.I.S. must have gotten this idea from somewhere else. Moslems claim they follow the religion of Abraham, but they don't. What you "happen to believe" I couldn't care less about, unless you have something solid to substantiate such beliefs.

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29 Jul 2017, 8:33 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

I thought that the Greeks believed that women had an irrepressible interest in sex. They confined them to home, just like modern Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

I think they often engage in doublethink regarding women and sexuality. Ultimately the one unifying idea is that men need to control women's sexuality.

If they genuinely believed women were insatiable they'd be able to conceive of female homosexuality, whether to condemn it, embrace it or merely acknowledge it. They certainly understand men can have those urges, regardless of how they feel about them or how to properly express or not express them. When they do make a mention they're scandalized but treat it as a local thing, like those women from Lesvos (historically Lesbos).

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29 Jul 2017, 8:36 pm

Lintar wrote:

What I said was true. Christians and Muslims do NOT worship the same God. Deal with it.

Lintar wrote:

What you "happen to believe" I couldn't care less about, unless you have something solid to substantiate such beliefs.

You're right. Jews and Muslims worship the same One God, Christians worship this god's avatar who is simultaneously his son and himself and his spirit.

jrjones9933
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29 Jul 2017, 8:42 pm

Respect.

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Lintar
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29 Jul 2017, 8:44 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Both Muslims and Christians plagiarized the same Jewish God of the Old Testament, so all three religions worship the same God.

Oh boy. There are so many things wrong with this simple sentence that I do not know where to begin.

'Plagiarised'?! No. It is true that within the Bible itself there is a section called "The Old Testament" that covers the history, culture, religious practices and beliefs of the ancient Israelites, but the basic message of the New Testament is that the old, archaic laws, agreements and practices are no longer valid, having been superceded by the "new covenant", and that adherence to what is referred to in the text as "the law" is no longer what makes a person righteous. I know, there is much more to it than just this - a lot more - but I'm trying to be brief here.

The Quran almost never refers to events within the Old Testament. There are more references to people and places that occur in the New, and it often gets things wrong (ex. confuses the characters of Mary from the New Testament, with Miriam from the Old). The god "Allah" was originally part of a pantheon of gods, others being al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat, if I recall correctly. The "prophet" Mohammad came into contact with the Jews and Christians already living on the Arabian peninsula, and decided for reasons that are not entirely clear to start up his own monotheistic religion. Maybe he did it because it was a great business move, or perhaps it was just his epilepsy giving him delusions of messages from God.

Last edited by Lintar on 29 Jul 2017, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lintar
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29 Jul 2017, 8:47 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Lintar wrote:

What I said was true. Christians and Muslims do NOT worship the same God. Deal with it.

Lintar wrote:

What you "happen to believe" I couldn't care less about, unless you have something solid to substantiate such beliefs.

You're right. Jews and Muslims worship the same One God, Christians worship this god's avatar who is simultaneously his son and himself and his spirit.

The concept of avatars originated with the Hindu religion. You clearly are utterly clueless about all of this.

jrjones9933
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29 Jul 2017, 9:02 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

The really important part is the license from the state for marriage. Your grandparents may have needed to show that to hotel clerks when they were first married, in order to get a room. No s**t.

In modern times, it determines eligibility for a host of benefits, including insurance benefits in many places. Some political Xians want to deny same sex couples these benefits and others, like parental rights. They cite Leviticus.

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29 Jul 2017, 9:02 pm

Chichikov wrote:

Lintar wrote:

It says a lot about the subject. Ever hear of Sodom and Gomorrah?

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were not just killed for being homosexuals.

Sodom and Gomorrah were unrepentant sinful cities which is why they were destroyed, they were not killed for being gay. Words based on "sodom" came into language later as a metaphor, however you're working backwards with multiple problems. One; you are assuming sodomy relates to anal sex or homosexuality but it doesn't, while that is a common understanding it is a much broader term that covers all "non traditional" sex including oral. Two; you are assuming that the modern meaning of the word implies that the people of Sodom were all gay. Don't you see how ridiculous that is? Sodom and Gomorrah were *not* destroyed for homosexuality but for being unrepentant sinners, your beliefs about The Bible (and therefore Christianity) are simply based on misconceptions.

Why were those cities considered sinful? You already know the answer, it's right there in front of you, and if you are still not sure then just consult Genesis. It only ever mentions one particular sin, so we can be sure that this was the reason for their destruction.

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29 Jul 2017, 9:11 pm

Lintar wrote:

Why were those cities considered sinful?

Because they were all gay?

If Christianity is so against homosexuality why can't anyone simply quote chapter and verse where this is mentioned? It's such a simple request, if you can't do it admit you're wrong.

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