American "leftism" a threat to France...

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cyberdad
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12 Feb 2021, 5:24 am

Brictoria wrote:

How about we follow the suggestion contained within an earlier post, from around 10 minutes prior to this "detour":

cyberdad wrote:

I suggest we stick the to topic and go back to my original question asking for actual evidence (rather than opinions) of how France's culture is under threat from so called American "leftism"

Then I'll pose the question for the third time in this thread...
Does anyone have actual evidence (rather than opinions) of how France's culture is under threat from so called American "leftism"

Brictoria
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12 Feb 2021, 6:12 am

cyberdad wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

How about we follow the suggestion contained within an earlier post, from around 10 minutes prior to this "detour":

cyberdad wrote:

I suggest we stick the to topic and go back to my original question asking for actual evidence (rather than opinions) of how France's culture is under threat from so called American "leftism"

Then I'll pose the question for the third time in this thread...
Does anyone have actual evidence (rather than opinions) of how France's culture is under threat from so called American "leftism"

Reading the article linked in the first post would answer your queries, given it supplies "actual evidence", including quotes and is not simply a series of "opinions" as you appear to be implying... It may be worth doing so, then asking for assistance regarding "actual evidence" related to any "opinions" contained within it, which you still have questions about.

Or, should you be "picky" regarding sources, how about:

Quote:

PARIS — The threat is said to be existential. It fuels secessionism. Gnaws at national unity. Abets Islamism. Attacks France’s intellectual and cultural heritage.

The threat? “Certain social science theories entirely imported from the United States,’’ said President Emmanuel Macron.

French politicians, high-profile intellectuals and journalists are warning that progressive American ideas — specifically on race, gender, post-colonialism — are undermining their society. “There’s a battle to wage against an intellectual matrix from American universities,’’ warned Mr. Macron’s education minister.

Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/woke-american-ideas-are-a-threat-french-leaders-say/ar-BB1dwN0q (Taken from the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/fr/2021/02/09/world/europe/France-universites-decolonialisme-woke.html)

Pepe
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12 Feb 2021, 6:17 am

Brictoria wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

How about we follow the suggestion contained within an earlier post, from around 10 minutes prior to this "detour":

cyberdad wrote:

I suggest we stick the to topic and go back to my original question asking for actual evidence (rather than opinions) of how France's culture is under threat from so called American "leftism"

Then I'll pose the question for the third time in this thread...
Does anyone have actual evidence (rather than opinions) of how France's culture is under threat from so called American "leftism"

Quote:

Point Brictoria.

Mona Pereth
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12 Feb 2021, 9:17 am

Pepe wrote:

Often, cancel culture involves the ganging up by a group, against an individual with a different opinion.
I have a problem with the bullying attacks of a group with a mob mentality.

This kind of ganging-up is enabled by today's social media, and it can happen to all kinds of people, in all kinds of groups, for all kinds of reasons. It certainly isn't just a left-wing thing. It's a major hazard of today's world generally.

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Fnord
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12 Feb 2021, 9:33 am

Pepe wrote:

Often, cancel culture involves the ganging up by a group, against an individual with a different opinion. I have a problem with the bullying attacks of a group with a mob mentality.

That seems strange, coming from you. Do you remember the Fnord Derangement Syndrome s**tstorm from early last year?

I do.

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TenMinutes
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12 Feb 2021, 11:26 am

The_Walrus wrote:

Meanwhile someone like Joe Biden is neither neoliberal (because he is a social democrat) nor a neoconservative (because he is a progressive).

LOL. No. Puts into context everything else you said.

The actual left wishes Biden was everything Fox News said he was.

Fnord
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12 Feb 2021, 11:32 am

TenMinutes wrote:

... The actual left wishes Biden was everything Fox News said he was.

Evidence, please?

And just who is this "Actual Left" of whom you post?

We are neither mind-clones nor a monolithic group. We are an aggregate of dis-similar people resisting The Right.

Last edited by Fnord on 12 Feb 2021, 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jiheisho
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12 Feb 2021, 11:35 am

It seems the argument is because some French people believe so-called left-wing American ideas are bad for France, then that conjecture must be true. The position is to suppress those ideas because they are dangerous and that, apparently, the France don't have the critical thinking skills to evaluate them and so those ideas must be censored.

Or to put it another way, right-wing French elite want to cancel free speech.

Ironic.

Fnord
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12 Feb 2021, 11:39 am

Quote:

... Or to put it another way, right-wing French elite elitists everywhere want to cancel free speech.

There. Fixed it for you!

:wink:

TenMinutes
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12 Feb 2021, 11:51 am

Fnord wrote:

And just who is this "Actual Left" of whom you post?

The ones who don't get their news from MSNBC. The ones who do are "resisting" nothing at all. They're doing what they're told.

Fnord
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12 Feb 2021, 12:10 pm

TenMinutes wrote:

Fnord wrote:

And just who is this "Actual Left" of whom you post?

The ones who don't get their news from MSNBC. The ones who do are "resisting" nothing at all. They're doing what they're told.

Funny ... I get my news from MSNBC and Fox, and I am considered a "Leftist". Maybe because I also get my news from other sources as well, thus avoiding the monochromatic "tunnel vision" on social issues that seems to afflict the majority of people whose perspectives are mostly right-of-center.

The_Walrus
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12 Feb 2021, 12:59 pm

TenMinutes wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Meanwhile someone like Joe Biden is neither neoliberal (because he is a social democrat) nor a neoconservative (because he is a progressive).

LOL. No. Puts into context everything else you said.

The actual left wishes Biden was everything Fox News said he was.

Mr Biden isn’t going to pass any purity tests set by fans of Senator Sanders, or people even further to the left. But when you look at what the man is actually promising - a public healthcare option, huge infrastructure investment, expansion of free higher education, raising corporation taxes, huge expansion of union power, and the largest direct COVID stimulus in the world by far - he’s clearly a figure of the centre-left.

Clearly Mr Biden believes in the free market, he isn’t a socialist. But he’s also no neoliberal. Neoliberals believe in abolishing corporation tax, not raising it. There’s a whole load of space between socialists and neoliberals and that space is occupied by social democrats and Third Way types.

roronoa79
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12 Feb 2021, 3:51 pm

American 'leftism' is only a threat to french culture if you consider islamophobia, anti-semitism, downplaying the vichy regime, suppressing the languages and cultures of Bretons and Basques and Corsicans and Occitans, neocolonialism, and anti-blackness to be integral parts of french culture.

If France has a problem with islamism, it's because of their violent hatred of muslims. If France has a problem with separatists, it's because they treat anyone who isn't french enough as a threat to national unity.

Are there valid criticisms of cancel culture? Of course there are. But they sure as hell aren't coming from these people.

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Pepe
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12 Feb 2021, 4:12 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Often, cancel culture involves the ganging up by a group, against an individual with a different opinion.
I have a problem with the bullying attacks of a group with a mob mentality.

Agreed, but it is *mostly* those embracing left-wing sanctimony who engage in character assassination.

BTW.
"50 years ago, the left of politics had a heart.
Today, they have a 'fist.'"

Fnord
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12 Feb 2021, 4:15 pm

Pepe wrote:

Mona Pereth wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Often, cancel culture involves the ganging up by a group, against an individual with a different opinion. I have a problem with the bullying attacks of a group with a mob mentality.

Agreed, but it is *mostly* those embracing left-wing sanctimony who engage in character assassination.

I did not know that Donald Trump, QAnon, the Proud Boys, and the rest of the MAGA-Hat gang were leftists.

By the way...

50 years ago, the left of politics was weak.
Today, it has found its strength.

Pepe
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12 Feb 2021, 4:23 pm

Fnord wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Often, cancel culture involves the ganging up by a group, against an individual with a different opinion. I have a problem with the bullying attacks of a group with a mob mentality.

That seems strange, coming from you. Do you remember the Fnord Derangement Syndrome s**tstorm from early last year?

I do.

From memory, you weren't as left-wing as you are today.

Remember when I mentioned to you, that if you were bucking to become a mod, it wasn't going to happen if you continued to embrace non-left-wing ideology?

Also, back in those days I always defended you against left-wing harassment.
Remember [self-censored]'s campaign in trying to get both you and I 'cancelled'?

And what about 'Pepe derangement syndrome'?
In theory, we should be allies, and I thought we were at one stage.
You implying that I was a racist started our feud.
I am entitled to dislike a totalitarian government who is trying to destroy my country's economy through unethical/terrorist tactics.

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