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god created the universe and let it evolve without any furth

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greenblue
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22 Jan 2009, 6:25 pm

slowmutant wrote:
I search for God in my own way.

Is that you on your avatar?


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slowmutant
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22 Jan 2009, 6:31 pm

greenblue wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
I search for God in my own way.

Is that you on your avatar?


Yes, at long last. :D



Shiggily
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22 Jan 2009, 6:39 pm

v0lume wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
many people think that they think like me when my viewpoints align with theirs. But inevitably I will switch sides because I like to pick apart views to see what is all there and to assimilate them into my own worldview. Eventually your views won't align with mine and your concept that we think alike and that you agree with me will change.


How do you know your not just "lying to yourself"? :roll:
I judge things based on what I see. If something pompus is barging around striding for world domination, I have a problem with it, period. (ie, muslims, hebrews, christians etc). They think they can just go into another land, call it theirs, spread their little beliefs around to make everything suit them because they think they are better, and completely ruin every culture that was there before them. This isn't a lie, it's real and it's the truth. Not to mention all the other problems that I both did and didn't cover already. What I'm tired of are THEIR lies. Since one is convinced of something based on the evidence, it is known as a learning process, not saying something to ones self that isn't true for whatever the reason. Please try to understand this.. I do not like to be misunderstood.


lying to myself about exactly what?

you think you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong and a liar.

I don't think I am right, which is why I alter my views.

I fail to see your point.


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merrymadscientist
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22 Jan 2009, 6:46 pm

Shiggily wrote:

I don't think I am right, which is why I alter my views.



But don't you think that you are right about not thinking you are always right?



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22 Jan 2009, 6:49 pm

merrymadscientist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:

I don't think I am right, which is why I alter my views.



But don't you think that you are right about not thinking you are always right?


Watch out, Shiggily! There's a mind-fuck headed your way!



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22 Jan 2009, 7:09 pm

merrymadscientist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:

I don't think I am right, which is why I alter my views.



But don't you think that you are right about not thinking you are always right?

well, what is right and what is wrong or who is right and who is wrong is something very difficult to define, or to put it better, something very unprobable to accurately define, I mean, how many people can actually be said to be free from prejudice? Really, how many?

In the end, what one person considers to be the "truth" or to be "right" becomes their own opinion based on their own perspective and experience, etc. Even if we assume to be actually correct we always fall into that of selective and cognitive bias to suit our perceptions, our guts (which becomes more questionable even) and even our needs. And there will be always opposite views who would disagree with each other in many aspects.

It is very hard to grasp the accuracy of the validity of every claim made to accurately state in that position, other than just go with what appears to be the most probable, even though, that is not a garantuee from not being in error.


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ruveyn
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22 Jan 2009, 8:05 pm

slowmutant wrote:
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the only thing we can do is try to search for it, and I think physics is trying to do this (or the equivalent) anyway.


I search for God in my own way.


Which one? There may be several. The Hindus have 36 million gods.

ruveyn



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22 Jan 2009, 8:26 pm

ruveyn wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
the only thing we can do is try to search for it, and I think physics is trying to do this (or the equivalent) anyway.


I search for God in my own way.


Which one? There may be several. The Hindus have 36 million gods.

ruveyn


I believe there is but one God and many, many different ways to Him. There are many different mountain paths all leading to the same peak.



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22 Jan 2009, 10:38 pm

ruveyn, you know which one he means: THE god. Duh :P

My point shiggly, is that you were the one who claimed that I was lying to myself, and when I asked how, you talked without really saying anything that was relevant to what I was talking about. So neither of use are technically lying to ourselves, we just believe what we believe.. Not in a lying sort of way. It just sounded kinda silly to me when you brought that one up.
No, I don't believe everyone who disagrees with me is wrong and a liar, just the christians, hebrews and muslims. THEY are wrong for their wrong doing and corrupt values, but there are MANY other relions out there that I have the upmost respect for. Please understand this. Abrahamics are not the only other ones out there ya know :wink: (which is a common misunderstanding...)



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23 Jan 2009, 3:32 am

merrymadscientist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:

I don't think I am right, which is why I alter my views.



But don't you think that you are right about not thinking you are always right?


not always


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Shiggily
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23 Jan 2009, 3:35 am

slowmutant wrote:
merrymadscientist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:

I don't think I am right, which is why I alter my views.



But don't you think that you are right about not thinking you are always right?


Watch out, Shiggily! There's a mind-f**k headed your way!


it is not really a mind-F**ck. I do not always think I am wrong and I don't always think I am right. I merely take into account the possibility and that is why I keep my views open


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23 Jan 2009, 3:48 am

v0lume wrote:
ruveyn, you know which one he means: THE god. Duh :P

My point shiggly, is that you were the one who claimed that I was lying to myself, and when I asked how, you talked without really saying anything that was relevant to what I was talking about. So neither of use are technically lying to ourselves, we just believe what we believe.. Not in a lying sort of way. It just sounded kinda silly to me when you brought that one up.
No, I don't believe everyone who disagrees with me is wrong and a liar, just the christians, hebrews and muslims. THEY are wrong for their wrong doing and corrupt values, but there are MANY other relions out there that I have the upmost respect for. Please understand this. Abrahamics are not the only other ones out there ya know :wink: (which is a common misunderstanding...)


so you just pick certain people you dislike and believe that they are all liars. And you don't think that you are lying to yourself.

All people lie. the people who agree with you lie, the people who don't agree with you lie, you lie, I lie, everyone lies.

and I am not the one who consistently brings up the Judeo-christian religion and islam. you are. I say god in general (as a supernatural being of unknown origin) and you consistently refer to the God of the Bible and the Koran.

And you also seem to let your emotions get the best of you in assuming that if a select group of people are corrupt then all people associated with those people are also corrupt.

(warning: severe sarcasm)
It would be like me saying I don't think we should be allies with Germany and Japan because of WW2, Russia because of the cold war, or England because of the Revolutionary war. And while I am at it I hate all white people for slavery, all black people because a cousin of mine was robbed once, all men because some jerk leered at me in a bar, all Asians because of the Korean and Vietnam war (and all asians are the same anyway), and on and on and on

... until eventually there is no one new left to hate


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23 Jan 2009, 8:44 am

Shiggily wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
merrymadscientist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:

I don't think I am right, which is why I alter my views.



But don't you think that you are right about not thinking you are always right?


Watch out, Shiggily! There's a mind-f**k headed your way!


it is not really a mind-F**ck. I do not always think I am wrong and I don't always think I am right. I merely take into account the possibility and that is why I keep my views open


It is possible to have specific views and to also be open-minded.



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23 Jan 2009, 9:59 am

Try this one on for size: God created the multiverse (the manifold of all possible universes) after which he ceased to exist separately from his creation. What you see is what you get.

ruveyn



slowmutant
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23 Jan 2009, 10:14 am

ruveyn wrote:
Try this one on for size: God created the multiverse (the manifold of all possible universes) after which he ceased to exist separately from his creation. What you see is what you get.

ruveyn


What if God is His creation?



v0lume
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23 Jan 2009, 3:30 pm

Shiggily wrote:

so you just pick certain people you dislike and believe that they are all liars. And you don't think that you are lying to yourself.

All people lie. the people who agree with you lie, the people who don't agree with you lie, you lie, I lie, everyone lies.

and I am not the one who consistently brings up the Judeo-christian religion and islam. you are. I say god in general (as a supernatural being of unknown origin) and you consistently refer to the God of the Bible and the Koran.

And you also seem to let your emotions get the best of you in assuming that if a select group of people are corrupt then all people associated with those people are also corrupt.

(warning: severe sarcasm)
It would be like me saying I don't think we should be allies with Germany and Japan because of WW2, Russia because of the cold war, or England because of the Revolutionary war. And while I am at it I hate all white people for slavery, all black people because a cousin of mine was robbed once, all men because some jerk leered at me in a bar, all Asians because of the Korean and Vietnam war (and all asians are the same anyway), and on and on and on

... until eventually there is no one new left to hate

No I still don't think so. Hate is not a lie anymore than love is. Plus, Russia was innocent during the cold war, the US started making threats to them because of their rising knowledge in technology. So, understandably they made them back in order to protect their lands. I'm not sticking up for communism I'm just saying.. It's western arrogence that started that one, as usual.
And again, no it would not be like you saying that, I still hate the values they have to this day, all it causes is trouble and restriction without reason. It's the belief itself that puts a cap of (as desired because of the belief) ignorence and hypocrisy on humanity. So yes, I still have a problem with it. I still feel anger about what they did a long time ago, because they are still doing it (except this time in a non violent way), and what they did to my ancestors is just unforgivable.
By the way, I like the way England treated the early US, the pilgrims were a bunch of freaks anyway. They can cry about not being liked over there and then kill all the natives in the new world and steal their land because they are "better".. Typical christ-like behavior.