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Ragtime
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05 Apr 2012, 1:05 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i think jealousy is largely cultural. unsurprisingly, i had an open marriage. we were 2 free individuals who chose to be together. we did not own each other.


It would be difficult for us to see eye-to-eye. And your marriage was definitely among a minority. But about non-ownership: you two had to give each other permission to sleep with others. Why? Because ownership (or a synonym, if you like) was involved.
If no ownership of each other's bodies was part of marriage, then one spouse could simply inform the other that they intend to sleep around quite a lot, and the other spouse would be fine with it. That happens, but it's the exception. "WTF?! !" is the reply in most marriages. After getting that reply, can the first spouse say, "What's your problem? You don't own me. Why do you care whether I sleep around -- I use protection", and expect that explanation to mollify? No, because there is some ownership of "the goods" involved in regular marriage.


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05 Apr 2012, 1:06 pm

My two cents:

It's hard to explain how positive and reassuring it feels to submit to your husband. To me it just feels right! I love and most importantly, Respect my husband. I want to show him that by letting him lead me threw life and obey him in loving biblical submission. I believe, that is the most truest form of showing your love to your husband. I trust him. Not many wives can say that about there husband. (and I just wrote an hour long message to my best friend who was worried that she couldn't trust her husband.) God has put a role in my husbands life to fulfill, And that's leading me and keeping me safe. My husband basically has my life in his hands. I can understand how it would be scary to submit yourself to your husband because you are giving up control and your most intimate part of your self to that man. To me, It is the ultimate sacrifice of love a woman can give a man. And I trust Ragtime because he is a Good Man. He is righteous, rational and loving. I am proud to have him as my husband and I prove that by giving him the reigns in our marriage because he can do it better then I ever could. And I am women enough to admit my natural "faults".

I know that I will not be a good leader because I become irrational a few days out of the month. I am woman enough to understand and admit that I am affected by PMS. PMS is not who I am and I hate it as much as my husband does. It makes me hurt him and makes me feel bad emotionally. Women are emotional creatures. We are different in that sense. Our emotions mostly govern our lives. And sometimes our emotions steer us wrong. And then we end up regretting and feel guilty for what we did. And this is why many women who ask for CDD want it so they can have help controlling there over emotional side. And they want to feel they have a husband who is strong enough to tell her whats what and that what she is doing is wrong for a healthy marriage. And I trust my husband will keep me toward God and with a positive out look on life.

The first time I was spanked it was because I was having a rebellious and fearful attitude toward positive changes that was happening in my life.-Being offered a Job-. My emotions couldn't see threw to how my life would change for the better if I took this opportunity. More money to spend on things I want, Meeting new people and being able to help them using my creativity. Exercise everyday (walking to work only a mile away!) In a field I used to love doing in the past! It was all positive and life progressive work! But my attitude was negative. I wanted to still be lazy at home. I was afraid of how hot it would get in summer. I didn't want to work hard. I didn't want to hear from my husband how "good" the job was. I got so upset that the only way to show how upset I was about the change was to push my feet against Ragtime's chest/side while we we're sitting on the couch talking to me about it. He obviously knew that I wasn't going to understand it just by talking. Since my rebellious self didn't want to even hear it anymore! So he restrained me to the bed and spanked me with his belt until tears weld in my eyes. And I apologized for MY behavior! The next words out of my mouth was about how GOOD it is to get this job! I was even amazed at how natural the words came out! It was like the belt spanked the negative feelings out of me and made me realize how wrong it was to think such negative and selfish thoughts on something so rare as to get a job I've been wanting, in this economy! Before the belt, my mind didn't even want to think about how positive this change will be! No amount of talking from Ragtime would change it. And it went on for days! In the end, I had to FEEL that it was wrong. Women are emotionally ruled. Sometimes being physically corrected is the only way to get threw to them. I love my husband even more because he loved me enough to correct that wrong train of thought! And deep down I knew it was what I needed! I like knowing that my husband can control me when I can't control myself. Because I want the control. I don't like feeling like that, when I can't even see the light at the end of the tunnel because my bad emotions get in the way. I know you all are not going to like me saying this but women, Emotionally, are like children. We don't grow out of tantrums like men do because they are not emotional beings by nature. Sometimes you will have to spank a child because there emotions are governing them in the wrong direction. And having that sudden shock of pain by a displeased hand, resets there train of thought and they learn that what they did was wrong. That is why women can still benefit from being spanked. And I see it in not only myself but my Mom, my aunt, My friends. All the women in my life. They will get in fights with there husbands and boyfriends. Throw tantrums. I see it in my Mom all the time when she fights with my father and step father. She becomes out of control and I felt exactly like her. She is actually crying out for control. She wants to feel that what she is doing is wrong and deep down she knows it but she can't help it because she is being controlled by her emotions. I want to tell her about CDD but we are embarrassed. It's not considered the norm any more. It used to be but feminism actually changed that.

End o' Two Cents! :V


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hyperlexian
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05 Apr 2012, 1:07 pm

Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think jealousy is largely cultural. unsurprisingly, i had an open marriage. we were 2 free individuals who chose to be together. we did not own each other.


It would be difficult for us to see eye-to-eye. And your marriage was definitely among a minority. But about non-ownership: you two had to give each other permission to sleep with others. Why? Because ownership (or a synonym, if you like) was involved.
If no ownership of each other's bodies was part of marriage, then one spouse could simply inform the other that they intend to sleep around quite a lot, and the other spouse would be fine with it. That happens, but it's the exception. "WTF?! !" is the normal reply. After getting that reply, can the first spouse say, "What's your problem? You don't own me. Why do you care whether I sleep around -- I use protection", and expect that explanation to mollify? No, because there is some ownership of "the goods" involved in regular marriage.

no, we decided NOT to have ownership of each other. you can't force people to do what they don't want to do. in fact, one partner does not own the other's sexuality - infidelity rates are shockingly high. people assert their independence by doing whatever the heck they want in spite of their partner.

in an open marriage you admit that you do not own your partner's sexuality.


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05 Apr 2012, 1:16 pm

Mirror wrote:
My two cents:

It's hard to explain how positive and reassuring it feels to submit to your husband. To me it just feels right! I love and most importantly, Respect my husband. I want to show him that by letting him lead me threw life and obey him in loving biblical submission. I believe, that is the most truest form of showing your love to your husband. I trust him. Not many wives can say that about there husband. (and I just wrote an hour long message to my best friend who was worried that she couldn't trust her husband.) God has put a role in my husbands life to fulfill, And that's leading me and keeping me safe. My husband basically has my life in his hands. I can understand how it would be scary to submit yourself to your husband because you are giving up control and your most intimate part of your self to that man. To me, It is the ultimate sacrifice of love a woman can give a man. And I trust Ragtime because he is a Good Man. He is righteous, rational and loving. I am proud to have him as my husband and I prove that by giving him the reigns in our marriage because he can do it better then I ever could. And I am women enough to admit my natural "faults".

I know that I will not be a good leader because I become irrational a few days out of the month. I am woman enough to understand and admit that I am affected by PMS. PMS is not who I am and I hate it as much as my husband does. It makes me hurt him and makes me feel bad emotionally. Women are emotional creatures. We are different in that sense. Our emotions mostly govern our lives. And sometimes our emotions steer us wrong. And then we end up regretting and feel guilty for what we did. And this is why many women who ask for CDD want it so they can have help controlling there over emotional side. And they want to feel they have a husband who is strong enough to tell her whats what and that what she is doing is wrong for a healthy marriage. And I trust my husband will keep me toward God and with a positive out look on life.

The first time I was spanked it was because I was having a rebellious and fearful attitude toward positive changes that was happening in my life.-Being offered a Job-. My emotions couldn't see threw to how my life would change for the better if I took this opportunity. More money to spend on things I want, Meeting new people and being able to help them using my creativity. Exercise everyday (walking to work only a mile away!) In a field I used to love doing in the past! It was all positive and life progressive work! But my attitude was negative. I wanted to still be lazy at home. I was afraid of how hot it would get in summer. I didn't want to work hard. I didn't want to hear from my husband how "good" the job was. I got so upset that the only way to show how upset I was about the change was to push my feet against Ragtime's chest/side while we we're sitting on the couch talking to me about it. He obviously knew that I wasn't going to understand it just by talking. Since my rebellious self didn't want to even hear it anymore! So he restrained me to the bed and spanked me with his belt until tears weld in my eyes. And I apologized for MY behavior! The next words out of my mouth was about how GOOD it is to get this job! I was even amazed at how natural the words came out! It was like the belt spanked the negative feelings out of me and made me realize how wrong it was to think such negative and selfish thoughts on something so rare as to get a job I've been wanting, in this economy! Before the belt, my mind didn't even want to think about how positive this change will be! No amount of talking from Ragtime would change it. And it went on for days! In the end, I had to FEEL that it was wrong. Women are emotionally ruled. Sometimes being physically corrected is the only way to get threw to them. I love my husband even more because he loved me enough to correct that wrong train of thought! And deep down I knew it was what I needed! I like knowing that my husband can control me when I can't control myself. Because I want the control. I don't like feeling like that, when I can't even see the light at the end of the tunnel because my bad emotions get in the way. I know you all are not going to like me saying this but women, Emotionally, are like children. We don't grow out of tantrums like men do because they are not emotional beings by nature. Sometimes you will have to spank a child because there emotions are governing them in the wrong direction. And having that sudden shock of pain by a displeased hand, resets there train of thought and they learn that what they did was wrong. That is why women can still benefit from being spanked. And I see it in not only myself but my Mom, my aunt, My friends. All the women in my life. They will get in fights with there husbands and boyfriends. Throw tantrums. I see it in my Mom all the time when she fights with my father and step father. She becomes out of control and I felt exactly like her. She is actually crying out for control. She wants to feel that what she is doing is wrong and deep down she knows it but she can't help it because she is being controlled by her emotions. I want to tell her about CDD but we are embarrassed. It's not considered the norm any more. It used to be but feminism actually changed that.

End o' Two Cents! :V

your post breaks my heart. you are putting your own life in the hands of your husband as you have decided that he should somehow have control over you. your attitude puts yourself below him, as though he is more worthy than you. it actually brought tears to my eyes to read what you wrote.

you may want to familiarise yourself with the Karpman Triangle, as your relationship appears to have the dynamic set forth by that researcher. the only difference is that you feel happy at being oppressed:

http://www.therapyideas.net/triangles.htm

nobody can force you to see that you are just as important as your husband and just as capable at making your own decisions, but i hope that someday you come to understand it.


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05 Apr 2012, 1:18 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Primarily, I'm saying that, in a marriage, it usually works best for someone to lead. Marriages include two people into one marriage. The two people are -- being two -- independent individuals. But when they decide to be in one marriage, that marriage isn't two independent halves. When I drive my wife across the state to see her parents, only one of us drives at any given time. I don't ask my mechanic to install a steering wheel on the passenger side, even though that would serve marital equality better than just having one. The reason is obviously that the car drives better with one person driving it than with two. A marriage is the same way. My wife understands -- and is happy to tell others -- that our marriage works best when I lead and she follows. What I'm saying is that I don't consider that leader/follower relationship of ours to be an anomaly in that it works, but rather quite the contrary.

i didn't lead my husband, and he didn't lead me either. we were a team.


Am I to take that to mean that it would perplex you to know that my wife and I are quite a team too?
Leader, follower, and an amazing team. Is that just crazy to you?

that's not a team of equals


Ya it is. Team sports provide a good analogy. The people on a football team play different positions with different responsibilities -- but all have the same goal, and they perform their different duties to reach the same goal. No one is better than another, and every position is important toward winning the game. By your reasoning, the whole team should play the same position. Much confusion and argument would arise as a result, and the other team (that stayed organized) would win.
Clarity and organization win, both in players sticking to football positions, and in most spouses having their own "game plan". I'm not saying winging it can't work -- it clearly can. But there are people scratching their heads as to how on Earth my wife and I can be happy when the one with the penis is leading. I'm just trying to clarify, but it may be ineffable.


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05 Apr 2012, 1:25 pm

Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Primarily, I'm saying that, in a marriage, it usually works best for someone to lead. Marriages include two people into one marriage. The two people are -- being two -- independent individuals. But when they decide to be in one marriage, that marriage isn't two independent halves. When I drive my wife across the state to see her parents, only one of us drives at any given time. I don't ask my mechanic to install a steering wheel on the passenger side, even though that would serve marital equality better than just having one. The reason is obviously that the car drives better with one person driving it than with two. A marriage is the same way. My wife understands -- and is happy to tell others -- that our marriage works best when I lead and she follows. What I'm saying is that I don't consider that leader/follower relationship of ours to be an anomaly in that it works, but rather quite the contrary.

i didn't lead my husband, and he didn't lead me either. we were a team.


Am I to take that to mean that it would perplex you to know that my wife and I are quite a team too?
Leader, follower, and an amazing team. Is that just crazy to you?

that's not a team of equals


Ya it is. Team sports provide a good analogy. The people on a football team play different positions with different responsibilities -- but all have the same goal, and they perform their different duties to reach the same goal. No one is better than another, and every position is important toward winning the game. By your reasoning, the whole team should play the same position. Much confusion and argument would arise as a result, and the other team (that stayed organized) would win.
Clarity and organization win, both in players sticking to football positions, and in most spouses having their own "game plan". I'm not saying winging it can't work -- it clearly can. But there are people scratching their heads as to how on Earth my wife and I can be happy when the one with the penis is leading. I'm just trying to clarify, but it may be ineffable.

but you are not teammates with your wife. you are like the coach or manager and she is like the lowliest benchsitter.


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05 Apr 2012, 1:29 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think jealousy is largely cultural. unsurprisingly, i had an open marriage. we were 2 free individuals who chose to be together. we did not own each other.


It would be difficult for us to see eye-to-eye. And your marriage was definitely among a minority. But about non-ownership: you two had to give each other permission to sleep with others. Why? Because ownership (or a synonym, if you like) was involved.
If no ownership of each other's bodies was part of marriage, then one spouse could simply inform the other that they intend to sleep around quite a lot, and the other spouse would be fine with it. That happens, but it's the exception. "WTF?! !" is the normal reply. After getting that reply, can the first spouse say, "What's your problem? You don't own me. Why do you care whether I sleep around -- I use protection", and expect that explanation to mollify? No, because there is some ownership of "the goods" involved in regular marriage.

no, we decided NOT to have ownership of each other. you can't force people to do what they don't want to do. in fact, one partner does not own the other's sexuality - infidelity rates are shockingly high. people assert their independence by doing whatever the heck they want in spite of their partner.

in an open marriage you admit that you do not own your partner's sexuality.


I'm curious to ask how you would define your marriage. Like, what was it, in your own words? You've expressed what is wasn't, and what it didn't mean, but not what it was and what it meant.


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05 Apr 2012, 1:32 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
The roles you speak of are artificial


I beg to differ. They are, as I said earlier, suggested by nature. Women are better at running homes and nuturing kids, and men are better at physical labor. You can be mad about it, but that's a different issue. One called "feminism".


The "Christian household" is not part of nature.


My quoted post has nothing to do with Christian households, but rather human biology.

Vigilans wrote:
Women do not need "discipline" or to be kept in "their place".


My wife begs to differ. She is the one who found out about CDD and told me what it was. About once every two months, she gets rebellious. I'll tell her truths about life and responsibility, and she'll just pout and make rebellious grunts like a spoiled kid, and push her feet against me in defiance. I get a look on my face that tells her what's coming, she looks scared but at the time there is acknowledgment on her face that it's what she needs at that moment. I get her into a spanking position, at which she whines, but complies. I spank her until I see the rebellion is gone (it doesn't take but 10 or 15 seconds), and then I stop, and she immediately tells me how much it helped her, and her attitude is clearly totally different, and mature again. She tells me how she did indeed feel genuinely rebellious at the time, but that part of her wanted me -- needed me -- to punish her for it, and that her asking-for-it demeanor was literally that -- asking for it. She also says my spanking her is, right afterwards, very calming to her, and helps her see things clearly again.

I asked her last night what I should say to you people in this thread about CDD, and she said that she read about a study in which men, women, and children received harsh correction (she didn't say what that meant). The men responded simply by getting very angry, whereas women of all ages had the same response as the children -- their attitudes were shaped in the direction intended by the discipline. I don't believe men are exactly the same as women, nor do I believe they were meant to be the same, nor treated the same in every way. I do believe they are both human beings with equal mental powers and both deserve respect as such, but I believe in differentiating between men and women, in the old Southern "lady" and "gentleman" style of celebration and embrace of those differences, rather in trying to artificially minimize the differences between the sexes as if those differences are a mere nuisance, rather than a joy. Ladies in the Old South were proud to be ladies, and gentlemen proud to be gentlemen, and they each dressed and acted as such -- in ways that emphasized rather than hid those differences. I don't think a woman has anything to prove by putting on a pantsuit.


Wow... just wow. This makes me genuinely sad


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05 Apr 2012, 1:34 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
The roles you speak of are artificial


I beg to differ. They are, as I said earlier, suggested by nature. Women are better at running homes and nuturing kids, and men are better at physical labor. You can be mad about it, but that's a different issue. One called "feminism".


The "Christian household" is not part of nature.


My quoted post has nothing to do with Christian households, but rather human biology.

Vigilans wrote:
Women do not need "discipline" or to be kept in "their place".


My wife begs to differ. She is the one who found out about CDD and told me what it was. About once every two months, she gets rebellious. I'll tell her truths about life and responsibility, and she'll just pout and make rebellious grunts like a spoiled kid, and push her feet against me in defiance. I get a look on my face that tells her what's coming, she looks scared but at the time there is acknowledgment on her face that it's what she needs at that moment. I get her into a spanking position, at which she whines, but complies. I spank her until I see the rebellion is gone (it doesn't take but 10 or 15 seconds), and then I stop, and she immediately tells me how much it helped her, and her attitude is clearly totally different, and mature again. She tells me how she did indeed feel genuinely rebellious at the time, but that part of her wanted me -- needed me -- to punish her for it, and that her asking-for-it demeanor was literally that -- asking for it. She also says my spanking her is, right afterwards, very calming to her, and helps her see things clearly again.

I asked her last night what I should say to you people in this thread about CDD, and she said that she read about a study in which men, women, and children received harsh correction (she didn't say what that meant). The men responded simply by getting very angry, whereas women of all ages had the same response as the children -- their attitudes were shaped in the direction intended by the discipline. I don't believe men are exactly the same as women, nor do I believe they were meant to be the same, nor treated the same in every way. I do believe they are both human beings with equal mental powers and both deserve respect as such, but I believe in differentiating between men and women, in the old Southern "lady" and "gentleman" style of celebration and embrace of those differences, rather in trying to artificially minimize the differences between the sexes as if those differences are a mere nuisance, rather than a joy. Ladies in the Old South were proud to be ladies, and gentlemen proud to be gentlemen, and they each dressed and acted as such -- in ways that emphasized rather than hid those differences. I don't think a woman has anything to prove by putting on a pantsuit.


Wow... just wow. This makes me genuinely sad


I...agree it makes me sad to....



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05 Apr 2012, 1:35 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Primarily, I'm saying that, in a marriage, it usually works best for someone to lead. Marriages include two people into one marriage. The two people are -- being two -- independent individuals. But when they decide to be in one marriage, that marriage isn't two independent halves. When I drive my wife across the state to see her parents, only one of us drives at any given time. I don't ask my mechanic to install a steering wheel on the passenger side, even though that would serve marital equality better than just having one. The reason is obviously that the car drives better with one person driving it than with two. A marriage is the same way. My wife understands -- and is happy to tell others -- that our marriage works best when I lead and she follows. What I'm saying is that I don't consider that leader/follower relationship of ours to be an anomaly in that it works, but rather quite the contrary.

i didn't lead my husband, and he didn't lead me either. we were a team.


Am I to take that to mean that it would perplex you to know that my wife and I are quite a team too?
Leader, follower, and an amazing team. Is that just crazy to you?

that's not a team of equals


Ya it is. Team sports provide a good analogy. The people on a football team play different positions with different responsibilities -- but all have the same goal, and they perform their different duties to reach the same goal. No one is better than another, and every position is important toward winning the game. By your reasoning, the whole team should play the same position. Much confusion and argument would arise as a result, and the other team (that stayed organized) would win.
Clarity and organization win, both in players sticking to football positions, and in most spouses having their own "game plan". I'm not saying winging it can't work -- it clearly can. But there are people scratching their heads as to how on Earth my wife and I can be happy when the one with the penis is leading. I'm just trying to clarify, but it may be ineffable.

but you are not teammates with your wife. you are like the coach or manager and she is like the lowliest benchsitter.


No! :lol: :roll: You are so off-base. This is what we practice:

Quote:
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Ephesians 5:21-33

Your argument is with Paul, not with me. You are attacking a part of my religion (just for the record). I know you believe in living and letting live, and being non-judgmental, and staying open-minded. So you'd never attack someone for practicing their religion, right?


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05 Apr 2012, 1:37 pm

Tolerance of religious practices goes only so far. Some things are simply inexcusable and hiding behind faith is not going to work


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05 Apr 2012, 1:38 pm

no, i am not attacking your religion. in fact, most Christians do not subscribe to your brand of domestic discipline. YOU used the analogy of a team, but you are not playing on the team together. you are making the calls. a teammate doesn't do that.


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05 Apr 2012, 1:39 pm

Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Primarily, I'm saying that, in a marriage, it usually works best for someone to lead. Marriages include two people into one marriage. The two people are -- being two -- independent individuals. But when they decide to be in one marriage, that marriage isn't two independent halves. When I drive my wife across the state to see her parents, only one of us drives at any given time. I don't ask my mechanic to install a steering wheel on the passenger side, even though that would serve marital equality better than just having one. The reason is obviously that the car drives better with one person driving it than with two. A marriage is the same way. My wife understands -- and is happy to tell others -- that our marriage works best when I lead and she follows. What I'm saying is that I don't consider that leader/follower relationship of ours to be an anomaly in that it works, but rather quite the contrary.

i didn't lead my husband, and he didn't lead me either. we were a team.


Am I to take that to mean that it would perplex you to know that my wife and I are quite a team too?
Leader, follower, and an amazing team. Is that just crazy to you?

that's not a team of equals


Ya it is. Team sports provide a good analogy. The people on a football team play different positions with different responsibilities -- but all have the same goal, and they perform their different duties to reach the same goal. No one is better than another, and every position is important toward winning the game. By your reasoning, the whole team should play the same position. Much confusion and argument would arise as a result, and the other team (that stayed organized) would win.
Clarity and organization win, both in players sticking to football positions, and in most spouses having their own "game plan". I'm not saying winging it can't work -- it clearly can. But there are people scratching their heads as to how on Earth my wife and I can be happy when the one with the penis is leading. I'm just trying to clarify, but it may be ineffable.

but you are not teammates with your wife. you are like the coach or manager and she is like the lowliest benchsitter.


No! :lol: :roll: You are so off-base. This is what we practice:

Quote:
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Ephesians 5:21-33

Your argument is with Paul, not with me. You are attacking a part of my religion (just for the record). I know you believe in living and letting live, and being non-judgmental, and staying open-minded. So you'd never attack someone for practicing their religion, right?


Let me ask you this though Ragetime did Jesus even agree with paul that women should never preach or teach? The answer no he did not and hyperlexian has never attacked me for my religion so she doesn't do that.



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05 Apr 2012, 1:40 pm

oh, by the way Ragtime... i married a Christian.


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05 Apr 2012, 1:42 pm

Their are a lot of christians who do not live such a lifestyle in fact I am a very secular christian as I do not let my faith intervene in my choices that I make in regards to science and politics.



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05 Apr 2012, 1:43 pm

Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think jealousy is largely cultural. unsurprisingly, i had an open marriage. we were 2 free individuals who chose to be together. we did not own each other.


It would be difficult for us to see eye-to-eye. And your marriage was definitely among a minority. But about non-ownership: you two had to give each other permission to sleep with others. Why? Because ownership (or a synonym, if you like) was involved.
If no ownership of each other's bodies was part of marriage, then one spouse could simply inform the other that they intend to sleep around quite a lot, and the other spouse would be fine with it. That happens, but it's the exception. "WTF?! !" is the normal reply. After getting that reply, can the first spouse say, "What's your problem? You don't own me. Why do you care whether I sleep around -- I use protection", and expect that explanation to mollify? No, because there is some ownership of "the goods" involved in regular marriage.

no, we decided NOT to have ownership of each other. you can't force people to do what they don't want to do. in fact, one partner does not own the other's sexuality - infidelity rates are shockingly high. people assert their independence by doing whatever the heck they want in spite of their partner.

in an open marriage you admit that you do not own your partner's sexuality.


I'm curious to ask how you would define your marriage. Like, what was it, in your own words? You've expressed what is wasn't, and what it didn't mean, but not what it was and what it meant.

we were equal partners who were in love. we supported each other emotionally, physically and sexually. we were best friends that cared for each other's well being. he and i formed 2/3 of a family, and we put our child's needs at the forefront. we gave each other advice and guidance but did not make decisions for each other. we freely chose to be together (and now we are freely choosing not to be together. but we're best friends and currently share a house).


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