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Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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Joker
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05 Apr 2012, 2:38 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
I do not see how any women or wife would want a man to dominate her in any way shape of form.


Clearly, that's true: you don't.


And clearly you have a old testement view in regards to women.



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05 Apr 2012, 2:38 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Mirror wrote:
Joker wrote:
I do not see how any women or wife would want a man to dominate her in any way shape of form.


I know it's hard to understand. But for me, being a women, It's a very natural feeling. Like when men open doors for you. Help you carry heavy things. Pull your chair out for you to sit. Many women feel that this is a horrible thing for men to do! That it's not right for men to treat women like this because we are equal! But I like being treated like this. Why does it come so natural for men to do this and for women to be receptive of this attention. It all boils down to this: Men want to take care of women. And Women want to be taken care of by men! At least for me it rings true!

i am a woman and it does not come naturally to me. a major idea behind feminism is to move away from that model, so i would say that many women agree with the idea that men do not have to be dominant anymore. you may enjoy the relationship, but that does not make it natural.


But it feels natural to me and makes me happy! Being a dominant women feels unnatural to me! It may be a bit hard for a 5', 90 lb girl try and take command of a group of men in a dominant fashion! lol A girl like me welcomes the protection of a stronger, because frankly I can't protect myself. And I understand that! I understand my self and my nature! I am hoping that a man will feel an urge to take care of me because if they didn't I would be raped! And I almost been kidnapped twice, WHILE AN ADULT, because of how I look! I really on the kindness of strangers and God every time I go out with out my husband! This fact about my appearance and behavior adds to our relationship and what makes it what. I am not strong. I do not get paid much because I can't do much. I have to naturally rely on men for help. And the good men see me as something to protect and the bad ones exploit.

This may add some insight on our relationship dynamic!


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05 Apr 2012, 2:40 pm

The point we are making is do you ever do anything for yourself or do you need Ragtime to always do things for you most women do things themselfs with out having to depend on a man.



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05 Apr 2012, 2:42 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Mirror wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
no, i am not attacking your religion. in fact, most Christians do not subscribe to your brand of domestic discipline. YOU used the analogy of a team, but you are not playing on the team together. you are making the calls. a teammate doesn't do that.


No, we signal back and forth to each other, just like the players do. We each take turns signaling, and watching and listening to the signals. You seem to think this is all one way, when cues are both taken and given by both of us. I need her, and she needs me, just like the players on a team. You seem to image that I have disrespect for my wife. If you buy into modern societal b.s., I can see why you'd think that, but you are mistaken. I love and respect my wife highly! That's why I chose her, and vice versa.

I mean, ya know, none of this is anyone's business but ours, but I thought people in this thread might like an exchange of views.

you expect her to defer and submit to you. that is not equal.


I submit to my husband because I want to on very deep levels! It is equal! I am a follower and Ragtime is the leader. It is like yin and yang. We twirl and cup each other equally. But one has to lead like in a dance! It's a very natural feeling! And because of it we have a level of love and trust that is very deep. What love it is to give yourself to your husband! It is a feeling very few women can proudly say!

it doesn't sound healthy to me because it is based on a power differential underpinned by the assumption that you are not as worthy of making decisions for yourself. you have put yourself down and your husband up.


Well, due to our ages, I have a decade more experience at dealing with life and the world than she does, but I guess experience is of zero value for making decisions in life, right? Hmmm, seems otherwise to me... I don't know... I always feel there's benefit to it, or something. It's almost like... my decisions get, uhm... BETTER, with each passing year of experience accumulated... or something.


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05 Apr 2012, 2:44 pm

Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Mirror wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
no, i am not attacking your religion. in fact, most Christians do not subscribe to your brand of domestic discipline. YOU used the analogy of a team, but you are not playing on the team together. you are making the calls. a teammate doesn't do that.


No, we signal back and forth to each other, just like the players do. We each take turns signaling, and watching and listening to the signals. You seem to think this is all one way, when cues are both taken and given by both of us. I need her, and she needs me, just like the players on a team. You seem to image that I have disrespect for my wife. If you buy into modern societal b.s., I can see why you'd think that, but you are mistaken. I love and respect my wife highly! That's why I chose her, and vice versa.

I mean, ya know, none of this is anyone's business but ours, but I thought people in this thread might like an exchange of views.

you expect her to defer and submit to you. that is not equal.


I submit to my husband because I want to on very deep levels! It is equal! I am a follower and Ragtime is the leader. It is like yin and yang. We twirl and cup each other equally. But one has to lead like in a dance! It's a very natural feeling! And because of it we have a level of love and trust that is very deep. What love it is to give yourself to your husband! It is a feeling very few women can proudly say!

it doesn't sound healthy to me because it is based on a power differential underpinned by the assumption that you are not as worthy of making decisions for yourself. you have put yourself down and your husband up.


Well, due to our ages, I have a decade more experience at dealing with life and the world than she does, but I guess experience is of zero value for making decisions in life, right? Hmmm, seems otherwise to me... I don't know... I always feel there's benefit to it, or something. It's almost like... my decisions get, uhm... BETTER, with each passing year of experience accumulated... or something.


Having a greater life experience then your wife really has nothing to do with why she needs to depend on you all the time and doesn't do anything for herself at least that's what most of us think do to your posts that you have made.



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05 Apr 2012, 2:45 pm

Joker wrote:
The point we are making is do you ever do anything for yourself or do you need Ragtime to always do things for you most women do things themselfs with out having to depend on a man.


Like what kind of things? I only ask for help when I need it. Like when I can't get something off the top shelf. When I can't open jars because I'm not strong enough. When it comes to my limits I ask for help. I am not ashamed of that.


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05 Apr 2012, 2:45 pm

myth wrote:
First of all, I'd like to say that the model that Ragtime and Mirror are describing is not exactly what I would consider (or have studied) the usual Christian model to be.

That being said, again, I would state that if it works for them and they are both happy, then it is not wrong.

I think it is making a large leap to assume that because Mirror is happy and wants this type of relationship, that it means she thinks ALL women should be this way. Their relationship may well be unique and, again, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, if someone came to her and demanded that she be more dominant and stop listening to her husband, I contend that that behavior would be wrong.

Conversely, if she demanded that all women behave this way, it would also be wrong.

It is interesting to me to see an example of this type of relationship but does not in anyway affect how I feel about myself or other women because it is nothing more than a singular example of a relationship between two specific individuals and I'm very happy that it works for them. Would it work for me? Unlikely.


I agree with this almost word for word, to each their own.......it most certainly would not work for me either but who am I to judge what works for other people.


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05 Apr 2012, 2:48 pm

Mirror wrote:
Joker wrote:
The point we are making is do you ever do anything for yourself or do you need Ragtime to always do things for you most women do things themselfs with out having to depend on a man.


Like what kind of things? I only ask for help when I need it. Like when I can't get something off the top shelf. When I can't open jars because I'm not strong enough. When it comes to my limits I ask for help. I am not ashamed of that.


I am sure you are strong enough to open a jar for yourself and if you can't get something off the top shelf you could use a chair but when it comes to your limits thats fine I understand that but most independent women do not need men to do such things for them.



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05 Apr 2012, 2:53 pm

Vigilans wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I don't care if other women want to submit to men in one way or another. All I know is that I sure 'aint, and I don't want anyone else to be forced to, or even expected to, because it's the 'natural' way. So much of my natural ways of feeling and being seem to say 'balls to nature', which is funny since they come naturally to me. :lol:


I don't see how behavior that is only a few thousand years old could be considered "natural", unless you think the world is only a few thousand years old.. oh, wait


If something makes you happy, then why do you need to justify it with a claim to its 'naturalness'? Surely pleasure is its own justification? The only reason I can think of for trotting out the 'it's nature's way' argument, is to try to persuade everyone to do the same thing. Sod people who think they've found the 'one true way'.


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05 Apr 2012, 2:57 pm

Joker wrote:
Mirror wrote:
Joker wrote:
The point we are making is do you ever do anything for yourself or do you need Ragtime to always do things for you most women do things themselfs with out having to depend on a man.


Like what kind of things? I only ask for help when I need it. Like when I can't get something off the top shelf. When I can't open jars because I'm not strong enough. When it comes to my limits I ask for help. I am not ashamed of that.


I am sure you are strong enough to open a jar for yourself and if you can't get something off the top shelf you could use a chair but when it comes to your limits thats fine I understand that but most independent women do not need men to do such things for them.


Most girls aren't built like me! ;^ ^ I do many things myself! Soon I'll be walking over a mile to work! And it feel good to rely on yourself! It's very empowering! Ragtime does not stifle me in any way! I don't go crying up to him because I need him to do something for me and crumble if he doesn't! :V I try my best to open the jar first and if I can't I go to him! I pull my weight and cook and clean for us! Take care of our dog. Plan meals and have some down time to draw or study! He isn't a bastard like you all think he is! I love him and look up to him as my protector "night in shining armor". He works hard to give my this life and I am very lucky to not have to bashed in by the world and become jaded and hard heart-ed.


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05 Apr 2012, 2:59 pm

Joker wrote:
Mirror wrote:
Joker wrote:
The point we are making is do you ever do anything for yourself or do you need Ragtime to always do things for you most women do things themselfs with out having to depend on a man.


Like what kind of things? I only ask for help when I need it. Like when I can't get something off the top shelf. When I can't open jars because I'm not strong enough. When it comes to my limits I ask for help. I am not ashamed of that.


I am sure you are strong enough to open a jar for yourself and if you can't get something off the top shelf you could use a chair but when it comes to your limits thats fine I understand that but most independent women do not need men to do such things for them.


Sometimes I have to have guy friends open jars for me....especially if its not a metal jar that you can tap with a butter knife or whatever to loosen. So I don't think its necessarily bad to need help with opening a jar or lid.


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05 Apr 2012, 2:59 pm

I just can't understand such a relationship in the 21century if it was BC or AD or BCE times then yeah I could but the fact is it's the year 2012 things are a lot diffrent now and women have rights an don't have to depend on men for thing's as simple as opening a jar or getting things off the top shelf.



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05 Apr 2012, 3:02 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I don't care if other women want to submit to men in one way or another. All I know is that I sure 'aint, and I don't want anyone else to be forced to, or even expected to, because it's the 'natural' way. So much of my natural ways of feeling and being seem to say 'balls to nature', which is funny since they come naturally to me. :lol:


I don't see how behavior that is only a few thousand years old could be considered "natural", unless you think the world is only a few thousand years old.. oh, wait


If something makes you happy, then why do you need to justify it with a claim to its 'naturalness'? Surely pleasure is its own justification? The only reason I can think of for trotting out the 'it's nature's way' argument, is to try to persuade everyone to do the same thing. Sod people who think they've found the 'one true way'.


Yes exactly which is why I think it is BS when these people say they are not trying to promote it as the only logical path


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05 Apr 2012, 3:03 pm

Joker wrote:
I just can't understand such a relationship in the 21century if it was BC or AD or BCE times then yeah I could but the fact is it's the year 2012 things are a lot diffrent now and women have rights an don't have to depend on men for thing's as simple as opening a jar or getting things off the top shelf.


I don't see why it's wrong to ask for help when opening a jar or getting things from the top shelf? :? Does it bother men to have there girlfriend/wife ask for there help?


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05 Apr 2012, 3:03 pm

Since I think lesbian sadomasochism is awesome, it must have been intended by God/Nature. Everyone should therefore be a lesbian sadomasochist. Get your nipple clamps on!


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05 Apr 2012, 3:04 pm

Joker wrote:
I just can't understand such a relationship in the 21century if it was BC or AD or BCE times then yeah I could but the fact is it's the year 2012 things are a lot diffrent now and women have rights an don't have to depend on men for thing's as simple as opening a jar or getting things off the top shelf.


If you're short and suck at opening jars.......it might make more sense, but I would not say I would need a man specifically to help, if a female friend is around and can reach what I can't or open the jar then they are free to help. But it just so happens usually my male friend is the strongest and tallest one at his house so he has the most superior jar opening skills and can reach everything in the cupboards. lol


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 05 Apr 2012, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.