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Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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Mirror
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05 Apr 2012, 3:34 pm

Ragtime wrote:
My wife broke her glasses once, and wouldn't let me help her. I have more experience than I care to admit fixing tiny parts in tight spaces on model helicopters for hours at a time, but she wouldn't hear of me helping her. She got the soldering iron out and went to town, and fixed them! So ya, she definitely has an independent streak, just like everyone does. I was proud she did it even though it had frustrated her a lot.


And it was during my "Dentist Trauma" too! :V I have REALLY BAD FEARS when it comes to dentists, needles, doctors. It is fears that borderline PTSD. I rely on Ragtime, no Depend on him to help me get threw them! For a month I was debilitated emotionally, dizzy, would scream and cry when ever anything reminded me of medical pain or women getting hurt. I was so traumatized that I reached a phase of feeling no pain and would hit my arm against the wall! I have a good memory and realized that it all stemmed back to being born. But that's a whole n'ther story!

I don't think it's wrong to depend on someone when you are weak. I still try my hardest to do it myself! (even though I melted my glasses a bit in the process!) In hindsight I should have sucked up my pride and asked Ragtime to fix them because now they look kinda stupid on the inside! :V


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05 Apr 2012, 4:02 pm

i think that individuals have weak points and strong points, but it would be erroneous to extrapolate that to an entire gender and to call it "nature".


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TM
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05 Apr 2012, 4:05 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i think that individuals have weak points and strong points, but it would be erroneous to extrapolate that to an entire gender and to call it "nature".


On the other hand, its perfectly logical to do so in some cases provided there is a large enough sample size.



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05 Apr 2012, 4:08 pm

TM wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think that individuals have weak points and strong points, but it would be erroneous to extrapolate that to an entire gender and to call it "nature".


On the other hand, its perfectly logical to do so in some cases provided there is a large enough sample size.


Samples are relevant based far more on representation, not size.
Cross-cultural, longitudinal, multi-discipline observations of the extreme cultural variability and historical fluidity of gender roles for instance.


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05 Apr 2012, 4:14 pm

TM wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think that individuals have weak points and strong points, but it would be erroneous to extrapolate that to an entire gender and to call it "nature".


On the other hand, its perfectly logical to do so in some cases provided there is a large enough sample size.

no, the results would still have cultural norms embedded in them. if women in a culture are not encouraged to be strong, then it will appear that there is a great disparity between the levels of strength between the genders when nature may only account for a small amount of difference.


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05 Apr 2012, 4:17 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think that individuals have weak points and strong points, but it would be erroneous to extrapolate that to an entire gender and to call it "nature".


On the other hand, its perfectly logical to do so in some cases provided there is a large enough sample size.


Samples are relevant based far more on representation, not size.
Cross-cultural, longitudinal, multi-discipline observations of the extreme cultural variability and historical fluidity of gender roles for instance.


(Someone went to university. :lol: )


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05 Apr 2012, 4:18 pm

Rewriting the post.



Last edited by TM on 05 Apr 2012, 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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05 Apr 2012, 4:19 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
TM wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think that individuals have weak points and strong points, but it would be erroneous to extrapolate that to an entire gender and to call it "nature".


On the other hand, its perfectly logical to do so in some cases provided there is a large enough sample size.

no, the results would still have cultural norms embedded in them. if women in a culture are not encouraged to be strong, then it will appear that there is a great disparity between the levels of strength between the genders when nature may only account for a small amount of difference.


So, if that's the case, do you posit a broad truth about women? What would that be? And how likely is it true, given how hard it apparently is to back up with studies?


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05 Apr 2012, 4:23 pm

Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
TM wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think that individuals have weak points and strong points, but it would be erroneous to extrapolate that to an entire gender and to call it "nature".


On the other hand, its perfectly logical to do so in some cases provided there is a large enough sample size.

no, the results would still have cultural norms embedded in them. if women in a culture are not encouraged to be strong, then it will appear that there is a great disparity between the levels of strength between the genders when nature may only account for a small amount of difference.


So, if that's the case, do you posit a broad truth about women? What would that be? And how likely is it true, given how hard it apparently is to back up with studies?


Assuming that the argument is going to be the same now as it has been for 80 pages, it goes something like this: "We cannot establish how much of behavior is nature and how much is learned, so we're going to go with that a majority of it is related to culture without having any evidence for it, while requiring anyone else that has a different view present evidence to back it up." As in "The women who are now picking what to study and then entering the workforce who have never experienced sexism are making the same choices as their mothers to an even greater degree, so we're going to assume this has to do with culture telling them to do so, rather than perhaps conceding that biology may play a huge part."

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?



Last edited by TM on 05 Apr 2012, 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mirror
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05 Apr 2012, 4:27 pm

TM wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
TM wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think that individuals have weak points and strong points, but it would be erroneous to extrapolate that to an entire gender and to call it "nature".


On the other hand, its perfectly logical to do so in some cases provided there is a large enough sample size.

no, the results would still have cultural norms embedded in them. if women in a culture are not encouraged to be strong, then it will appear that there is a great disparity between the levels of strength between the genders when nature may only account for a small amount of difference.


So, if that's the case, do you posit a broad truth about women? What would that be? And how likely is it true, given how hard it apparently is to back up with studies?


Assuming that the argument is going to be the same now as it has been for 80 pages, it goes something like this: "We cannot establish how much of behavior is nature and how much is learned, so we're going to go with that a majority of it is related to culture without having any evidence for it, while requiring anyone else that has a different view present evidence to back it up."


That about covers it! :V lol!

A true case study would be to go back in time and observe caveman and women interact with each other before there was ever a culture.


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05 Apr 2012, 4:57 pm

TM wrote:
"We cannot establish how much of behavior is nature and how much is learned, so we're going to go with that a majority of it is related to culture without having any evidence for it, while requiring anyone else that has a different view present evidence to back it up." As in "The women who are now picking what to study and then entering the workforce who have never experienced sexism are making the same choices as their mothers to an even greater degree, so we're going to assume this has to do with culture telling them to do so, rather than perhaps conceding that biology may play a huge part."

If one writes off the entirety of all the social sciences, then the only evidence for causation as far as human behavior is biological by definition. :lol:
TM wrote:

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.
Unfortunately.


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05 Apr 2012, 5:05 pm

It boggles the mind that with what we know of culturalization's effects- take the effects of mass media on adolescent behavior, ALONE,as comprised of a million advertisement strategies, niche markets, technological mediums, entertainment genres, across a thousand demographics, and you have a hint of the power of culturalization.

This is apart from peer and educator influence, religious institutions, early indoctrination into familial belief systems....


:lmao:

The Flat Earth Society called...


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05 Apr 2012, 5:11 pm

Mirror wrote:

A true case study would be to go back in time and observe caveman and women interact with each other before there was ever a culture.


Is that kind of like up being down and black being white?

This thread is giving me bruises from all the facepalming I do.


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05 Apr 2012, 5:28 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Mirror wrote:

A true case study would be to go back in time and observe caveman and women interact with each other before there was ever a culture.


Is that kind of like up being down and black being white?

This thread is giving me bruises from all the facepalming I do.


:?
Could you please be a little more clear?


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05 Apr 2012, 5:43 pm

...what do you think "culture" means?


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05 Apr 2012, 5:45 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
...what do you think "culture" means?


Where does culture spring from?


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