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TM
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05 Apr 2012, 5:46 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.
Unfortunately.


I was going to go on a rant about sociology, but I think this line of inquiry is much more interesting. You didn't answer my question, it looks like you began to answer it then decided to rant about the concept of the female body as a commodity that can be purchased and sold. I'll maintain that this is still the case, as is the case with the male body being purchased and sold, the currencies are just different.



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05 Apr 2012, 5:49 pm

TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.
Unfortunately.


I was going to go on a rant about sociology, but I think this line of inquiry is much more interesting. You didn't answer my question, it looks like you began to answer it then decided to rant about the concept of the female body as a commodity that can be purchased and sold. I'll maintain that this is still the case, as is the case with the male body being purchased and sold, the currencies are just different.


Males were sold for labor and females for sex. Both for their bodies... Naturally if society is dominated by males then the vast majority of prostitutes will be women. Especially if that is the only option available for independent income. However ancient artwork does display homosexual partnerships, so it stands to reason that male prostitutes were also in existence, but much like today, are basically invisible for a number of reasons.


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Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


Last edited by Vigilans on 05 Apr 2012, 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ValentineWiggin
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05 Apr 2012, 5:49 pm

TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.
Unfortunately.


I was going to go on a rant about sociology, but I think this line of inquiry is much more interesting. You didn't answer my question, it looks like you began to answer it then decided to rant about the concept of the female body as a commodity that can be purchased and sold. I'll maintain that this is still the case, as is the case with the male body being purchased and sold, the currencies are just different.


The sex drive is biological, the practice which sprung up to satisfy it exists because ethical mores allow it to. Ethics are cultural, and flux.
What part of this was a "rant", or difficult to understand?
I agree that there's no distinction (in terms of your question) when it comes to commodifying males- but your question was about a practice which commodifies women for male use.


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05 Apr 2012, 5:51 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
It boggles the mind that with what we know of culturalization's effects- take the effects of mass media on adolescent behavior, ALONE,as comprised of a million advertisement strategies, niche markets, technological mediums, entertainment genres, across a thousand demographics, and you have a hint of the power of culturalization.

This is apart from peer and educator influence, religious institutions, early indoctrination into familial belief systems....


:lmao:

The Flat Earth Society called...


One could easily argue that those "culturalization" effects are merely appeals to our biological nature. You argument could be twisted into "Culture can make people gay" or "Culture can make people X". Culture cannot make someone into something they do not have a propensity for in their biological nature, however since all culture comes from our biology, it can influence which parts of our biology becomes dominant.

The real sciences called and told you to l2objective.



TM
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05 Apr 2012, 5:52 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.
Unfortunately.


I was going to go on a rant about sociology, but I think this line of inquiry is much more interesting. You didn't answer my question, it looks like you began to answer it then decided to rant about the concept of the female body as a commodity that can be purchased and sold. I'll maintain that this is still the case, as is the case with the male body being purchased and sold, the currencies are just different.


The sex drive is biological, the practice which sprung up to satisfy it exists because ethical mores allow it to. Ethics are cultural, and flux.
What part of this was a "rant", or difficult to understand?
I agree that there's no distinction (in terms of your question) when it comes to commodifying males- but your question was about a practice which commodifies women for male use.


I didn't ask you a moral question, I asked "Why are females more commonly prostitutes than males" and you still haven't given me an answer.



TM
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05 Apr 2012, 5:53 pm

Vigilans wrote:
TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.
Unfortunately.


I was going to go on a rant about sociology, but I think this line of inquiry is much more interesting. You didn't answer my question, it looks like you began to answer it then decided to rant about the concept of the female body as a commodity that can be purchased and sold. I'll maintain that this is still the case, as is the case with the male body being purchased and sold, the currencies are just different.


Males were sold for labor and females for sex. Both for their bodies... Naturally if society is dominated by males then the vast majority of prostitutes will be women. Especially if that is the only option available for independent income. However ancient artwork does display homosexual partnerships, so it stands to reason that male prostitutes were also in existence, but much like today, are basically invisible for a number of reasons.


So, if a society was dominated by females, there would be tons of male prostitutes?



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05 Apr 2012, 5:54 pm

Mirror wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
...what do you think "culture" means?


Where does culture spring from?

It "springs from" an evolutionary pressure resulting in socialization...as in "interacting". :lol:


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


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05 Apr 2012, 5:54 pm

TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.
Unfortunately.


I was going to go on a rant about sociology, but I think this line of inquiry is much more interesting. You didn't answer my question, it looks like you began to answer it then decided to rant about the concept of the female body as a commodity that can be purchased and sold. I'll maintain that this is still the case, as is the case with the male body being purchased and sold, the currencies are just different.


The sex drive is biological, the practice which sprung up to satisfy it exists because ethical mores allow it to. Ethics are cultural, and flux.
What part of this was a "rant", or difficult to understand?
I agree that there's no distinction (in terms of your question) when it comes to commodifying males- but your question was about a practice which commodifies women for male use.


I didn't ask you a moral question, I asked "Why are females more commonly prostitutes than males" and you still haven't given me an answer.


Because more males are looking to pay for sex?


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Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


ValentineWiggin
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05 Apr 2012, 5:55 pm

TM wrote:
So, if a society was dominated by females, there would be tons of male prostitutes?

I don't think there would be as many, no.
Women consistently are less desirous of sex, and less desirous of sex with strangers, than are men.
There would likely be some, but hundreds of thousands of people trafficked annually in a global sex trade?
Dunno.


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


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05 Apr 2012, 5:55 pm

TM wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:

Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.
Unfortunately.


I was going to go on a rant about sociology, but I think this line of inquiry is much more interesting. You didn't answer my question, it looks like you began to answer it then decided to rant about the concept of the female body as a commodity that can be purchased and sold. I'll maintain that this is still the case, as is the case with the male body being purchased and sold, the currencies are just different.


Males were sold for labor and females for sex. Both for their bodies... Naturally if society is dominated by males then the vast majority of prostitutes will be women. Especially if that is the only option available for independent income. However ancient artwork does display homosexual partnerships, so it stands to reason that male prostitutes were also in existence, but much like today, are basically invisible for a number of reasons.


So, if a society was dominated by females, there would be tons of male prostitutes?


That depends on the demand by females. If the market exists, then yes. There are a lot of "ifs" to deal with. It is highly unlikely a society dominated by females would be an exact analogue of one dominated by males


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Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


ValentineWiggin
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05 Apr 2012, 5:57 pm

TM wrote:
I didn't ask you a moral question, I asked "Why are females more commonly prostitutes than males" and you still haven't given me an answer.

Nope. You most certainly did not.
You asked why that's the case and gave me "biological" or "cultural" as the two possible answers:
TM wrote:
Just to put it out there and I really hope Hyper or Valentine can give me an answer here: The majority of prostitutes are female both currently and historically, is this cultural or biological?

I answered most definitively that it is both.
ValentineWiggin wrote:
The drive for sex (not that that's the only reason men use prostitutes) is primarily biologically-based.
The concepts of the female body as a commodity to be bought, sold, and used,
and of sex as a transaction with inherent power differentials,
are both ethical concepts currently considered justifiable in most cultures.


We need to go back and read, I think?


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


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05 Apr 2012, 6:03 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
So, if a society was dominated by females, there would be tons of male prostitutes?

I don't think there would be as many, no.
Women consistently are less desirous of sex, and less desirous of sex with strangers, than are men.
There would likely be some, but hundreds of thousands of people trafficked annually in a global sex trade?
Dunno.


It seems like if it's mainly culture, then it would follow that a culture that is similar to ours where females are dominant, would result in the same in reverse if it does not, does that not imply that our biological urges are stronger than culture? However, if culture is merely our biological needs set in system, then it follows that a culture dominated from females would be vastly different as men and women value different things from a biological perspective.



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05 Apr 2012, 6:07 pm

Women are easily controlled and manipulated. They are emotionally based creatures who's thought process governs what they feel.

Men are stronger and more logical. They can use there strength to over power a women.

A good man will use his strength to protect a women and his logic to care and maintain her life and there children.

Bad men abuse that power because men naturally see women as beautiful and something they must have and use there strength and power for lust.

So I believe that it is biological.


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05 Apr 2012, 6:08 pm

TM wrote:
One could easily argue that those "culturalization" effects are merely appeals to our biological nature.

Sure, if...um... "culturalization" didn't by definition involve observable CHANGES in a sample after being exposed to a variable, as opposed to a control group which didn't experience them. 8O
TM wrote:
You argument could be twisted into "Culture can make people gay" or "Culture can make people X".
Culture cannot make someone into something they do not have a propensity for in their biological nature, however since all culture comes from our biology, it can influence which parts of our biology becomes dominant.

What "biological" urge do FGM or female infanticide serve, for example?
TM wrote:
The real sciences called and told you to l2objective.

Right, and that involves writing off entire fields of study because you don't like what they sez? :lol:


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"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 05 Apr 2012, 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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05 Apr 2012, 6:08 pm

TM wrote:
So, if a society was dominated by females, there would be tons of male prostitutes?

Of course! Every male on earth would be one.



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05 Apr 2012, 6:10 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Mirror wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
...what do you think "culture" means?


Where does culture spring from?

It "springs from" an evolutionary pressure resulting in socialization...as in "interacting". :lol:


Image


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