Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

How can a Christian also be a Republican?

Page 9 of 18 [ 278 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 18  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

18 Nov 2011, 2:00 am

Vigilans wrote:
Jobs once said he was really just good at connecting the dots. He had a keen eye for technological trends and he was both famous and infamous as a demanding boss. I am not a Mac fan really (though I do respect the technology) but I think Jobs death was a great loss.


That might be true. He was largely just an a**hole, though.

Which is something i respect - I'm an a**hole for a living.

They say that when he received the first set of 100 or so ipod prototypes, when he plugged in the headphones the jack did not click.

He threw a fit and demanded that all of them should be fixed so that they click.

My job is similar. I am paid to throw a small fit whenever software doesn't work the way it ought. Being a big arrogant nerd has really worked out for me as a career choice.

But he didn't invent the ipod, or even ask someone to invent it.

What he did was demand that 5 teams should come up with 5 final designs for the pocket music player that one of his engineers had been tinkering with.

and then pitched a fit when the headphone jacks were soldered onto the boards about half a millimeter too far inside the things.



Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

18 Nov 2011, 2:04 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Jobs once said he was really just good at connecting the dots. He had a keen eye for technological trends and he was both famous and infamous as a demanding boss. I am not a Mac fan really (though I do respect the technology) but I think Jobs death was a great loss.


That might be true. He was largely just an a**hole, though.

Which is something i respect - I'm an a**hole for a living.

They say that when he received the first set of 100 or so ipod prototypes, when he plugged in the headphones the jack did not click.

He threw a fit and demanded that all of them should be fixed so that they click.

My job is similar. I am paid to throw a small fit whenever software doesn't work the way it ought. Being a big arrogant nerd has really worked out for me as a career choice.

But he didn't invent the ipod, or even ask someone to invent it.

What he did was demand that 5 teams should come up with 5 final designs for the pocket music player that one of his engineers had been tinkering with.

and then pitched a fit when the headphone jacks were soldered onto the boards about half a millimeter too far inside the things.


:lol: I wish I could get paid to be an a**hole. I have been paid to be nice to people, which is not nearly as fulfilling (generic service jobs)
Sounds like Jobs. Notorious man. Eccentricity often goes hand in hand with genius. Look at Howard Hughes for example. Though I consider Hughes miles ahead of Jobs in so many ways (something of a personal hero), and I don't know if Jobs fits the "genius" description. He was certainly an important man though. "Good at connecting the dots", somebody has to be there to do it


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

18 Nov 2011, 2:13 am

Vigilans wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Jobs once said he was really just good at connecting the dots. He had a keen eye for technological trends and he was both famous and infamous as a demanding boss. I am not a Mac fan really (though I do respect the technology) but I think Jobs death was a great loss.


That might be true. He was largely just an a**hole, though.

Which is something i respect - I'm an a**hole for a living.

They say that when he received the first set of 100 or so ipod prototypes, when he plugged in the headphones the jack did not click.

He threw a fit and demanded that all of them should be fixed so that they click.

My job is similar. I am paid to throw a small fit whenever software doesn't work the way it ought. Being a big arrogant nerd has really worked out for me as a career choice.

But he didn't invent the ipod, or even ask someone to invent it.

What he did was demand that 5 teams should come up with 5 final designs for the pocket music player that one of his engineers had been tinkering with.

and then pitched a fit when the headphone jacks were soldered onto the boards about half a millimeter too far inside the things.


:lol: I wish I could get paid to be an a**hole. I have been paid to be nice to people, which is not nearly as fulfilling (generic service jobs)
Sounds like Jobs. Notorious man. Eccentricity often goes hand in hand with genius. Look at Howard Hughes for example. Though I consider Hughes miles ahead of Jobs in so many ways (something of a personal hero), and I don't know if Jobs fits the "genius" description. He was certainly an important man though. "Good at connecting the dots", somebody has to be there to do it


I keep telling people that software QA is a good career track for aspies, but nobody pays any attention.

Between being good at that and having put a LOT of work into office social skills i managed to get myself into a position where i might become a manager soon though.

He was an important guy. But any number of random chances could have gone the other way and led to him just being a really good produce man at a grocery store or something.



Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

18 Nov 2011, 2:20 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Jobs once said he was really just good at connecting the dots. He had a keen eye for technological trends and he was both famous and infamous as a demanding boss. I am not a Mac fan really (though I do respect the technology) but I think Jobs death was a great loss.


That might be true. He was largely just an a**hole, though.

Which is something i respect - I'm an a**hole for a living.

They say that when he received the first set of 100 or so ipod prototypes, when he plugged in the headphones the jack did not click.

He threw a fit and demanded that all of them should be fixed so that they click.

My job is similar. I am paid to throw a small fit whenever software doesn't work the way it ought. Being a big arrogant nerd has really worked out for me as a career choice.

But he didn't invent the ipod, or even ask someone to invent it.

What he did was demand that 5 teams should come up with 5 final designs for the pocket music player that one of his engineers had been tinkering with.

and then pitched a fit when the headphone jacks were soldered onto the boards about half a millimeter too far inside the things.


:lol: I wish I could get paid to be an a**hole. I have been paid to be nice to people, which is not nearly as fulfilling (generic service jobs)
Sounds like Jobs. Notorious man. Eccentricity often goes hand in hand with genius. Look at Howard Hughes for example. Though I consider Hughes miles ahead of Jobs in so many ways (something of a personal hero), and I don't know if Jobs fits the "genius" description. He was certainly an important man though. "Good at connecting the dots", somebody has to be there to do it


I keep telling people that software QA is a good career track for aspies, but nobody pays any attention.

Between being good at that and having put a LOT of work into office social skills i managed to get myself into a position where i might become a manager soon though.

He was an important guy. But any number of random chances could have gone the other way and led to him just being a really good produce man at a grocery store or something.


I'm glad to hear you have found success in that field. I hear stories about "office politics" and it is a real accomplishment to work to a higher position when one has issues with socializing to begin with

Absolutely. Actually Jobs' story reminds me of the quote I use in my signature:

Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu

Right place at the right time and he knew the right people to listen to. Lucky guy


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,402

18 Nov 2011, 3:45 am

Inuyasha wrote:
LKL wrote:
FWIW, most of Jobs' fortune came from Pixar, not Apple.


That even further debunks the idea that Jobs' fortune came on the backs of laborers in China.

The idea that most of his fortune came from Pixar is not mutually exclusive with the idea that he profited from very bad labor conditions in China.

Wrt. his cancer, he did try alternative therapies for a while but (according to the version I heard, anyway) switched to evidence-based medicine pretty quickly. He actually survived much longer than most people with pancreatic cancer do.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

18 Nov 2011, 4:57 am

LKL wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
LKL wrote:
FWIW, most of Jobs' fortune came from Pixar, not Apple.


That even further debunks the idea that Jobs' fortune came on the backs of laborers in China.

The idea that most of his fortune came from Pixar is not mutually exclusive with the idea that he profited from very bad labor conditions in China.

Wrt. his cancer, he did try alternative therapies for a while but (according to the version I heard, anyway) switched to evidence-based medicine pretty quickly. He actually survived much longer than most people with pancreatic cancer do.


When my maternal Grandmother had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, she was dead in a month.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

18 Nov 2011, 9:09 am

When he knew that he was about to die, that would have been an opportune time to repent of his sins. He chose not to, and was no Christian.



Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

18 Nov 2011, 1:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?


Probably 5 to 15% of your income and when rich people's taxes go up, yours go up accordingly.

I'm taking the "wealthy's" side in this because they are the ones that are being wronged here, not the poor. It's easy to spend other people's money Kraichgauer, but you would take a much different stance if it was your money being wasted.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You know what, they might actually be onto something. You aren't paying taxes, so why should you get to vote?

Now what I think is you should actually be paying a percentage of your income, not having your right to vote taken away because you're not rich, the fact is they have a point.

You are advocating spending other people's money and forcing them to pay more and more so you can spend more and more of their money. I guarentee you that you wouldn't be supporting the Democrats tax and spend mentality if it was your taxes we were talking about raising too.

There is a difference between taxes and outright theft, and I'm going to argue that Democrats are trying to cross that line.


My right to vote is just that - a right. It's not incumbent on how much money I have, or on how much taxes I pay.
It just goes to show, the idea that conservatives represent ordinary Americans better than so-called out of touch liberals is just a load of sh**. If you people represented anyone's interests other than just the rich, you would never be suggesting something as thoroughly Un-American as depriving millions of citizens of the vote. The greatest threat to American liberty isn't socialism, but unbridled capitalism championed by the wealthy and their army of inbred tea bagger cretins.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Okay then, let's have a vote that Kraichgauer's money is taxed to build a pool in let's say Vigilan's yard.


You can feel free to take the money for the pool OUT OF THE SALES TAX I PAY EVERY TIME I PURCHASE A NON-FOOD ITEM FROM THE STORE!
So yes, Inuyasha, I do in fact pay a tax. Regardless, my right to cast a vote isn't dependent on how much Goddamn taxes I pay, or how much property I own.
To paraphrase Kieth Olbermann, "The weakest citizen of this country is of more worth than it's largest corporation." And if you can't get behind that, then every bit of your talk of supporting free government and justice has been proven to be just so much sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


For the record, there is no National Sales Tax in the United States.

Anyways, I'm not talking about you choosing to participate in commerce anyways, so the sales tax argument is a red herring. I'm saying we should hike your taxes on the money you earn to pay for a pool for Vigilans, and since Vigilans has no yard... You now have to pay for a brand new house and a yard for Vigilans to put a pool in it.



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,695
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

18 Nov 2011, 1:59 pm

Not to bat the question down out of hand but:

1) Maybe they've seen national socialism and communism, don't like what comes with it?
2) Believe in charity over government dole?

Add to that many are pro-life (one-sider right there), don't like parties that endorse the restriction of public religious expression (again, there's a clear choice on this side), they don't like moral equivalency (again, this one's a clear choice - one acts decisively on something akin to moral hedonism, the other is much more 'nuanced' than that), they may hate what they believe the big-city pseudointellectuals stand for (again, one party represents these a lot more than the other). Also, you do have your flank of Evangelism who is very anti-drug, against wide acceptance of LGBT, against the expressions of modern pop-culture, and for those social conservatives and non-liberals its quite a clear distinction which party better represents their interests.

When taking current realities of what both parties are about, one party making some pacifist claims or economic egalitarian claims is futile if everything else is out of sync with what many Christians believe in or want (especially when they don't agree with pacifism or economic egalitarian government as the proper means to such ends). At the same time though I personally have no desire to see the Republican party be purely the party of the rich, the social conservatives, and the 'moralists'; just standing on the values of free market and the exploration of how that can be used to solve today's problems more gracefully than top-down bureaucracy is a much bigger hit with me than a party which wishes to perform all kinds of naive experiments on the society I live in, of which I along with everyone else will have to pay the price when those ideas happen to be cumbersome and utopian.


_________________
The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.


Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 18 Nov 2011, 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

18 Nov 2011, 2:03 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
LKL wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
LKL wrote:
FWIW, most of Jobs' fortune came from Pixar, not Apple.


That even further debunks the idea that Jobs' fortune came on the backs of laborers in China.

The idea that most of his fortune came from Pixar is not mutually exclusive with the idea that he profited from very bad labor conditions in China.

Wrt. his cancer, he did try alternative therapies for a while but (according to the version I heard, anyway) switched to evidence-based medicine pretty quickly. He actually survived much longer than most people with pancreatic cancer do.


When my maternal Grandmother had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, she was dead in a month.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


it took 2 years to kill my uncle.

but there is also a question of when it was discovered.

and do i need to bring up the suicide nets at the factory that makes iphones?



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

18 Nov 2011, 3:16 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?


Probably 5 to 15% of your income and when rich people's taxes go up, yours go up accordingly.

I'm taking the "wealthy's" side in this because they are the ones that are being wronged here, not the poor. It's easy to spend other people's money Kraichgauer, but you would take a much different stance if it was your money being wasted.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You know what, they might actually be onto something. You aren't paying taxes, so why should you get to vote?

Now what I think is you should actually be paying a percentage of your income, not having your right to vote taken away because you're not rich, the fact is they have a point.

You are advocating spending other people's money and forcing them to pay more and more so you can spend more and more of their money. I guarentee you that you wouldn't be supporting the Democrats tax and spend mentality if it was your taxes we were talking about raising too.

There is a difference between taxes and outright theft, and I'm going to argue that Democrats are trying to cross that line.


My right to vote is just that - a right. It's not incumbent on how much money I have, or on how much taxes I pay.
It just goes to show, the idea that conservatives represent ordinary Americans better than so-called out of touch liberals is just a load of sh**. If you people represented anyone's interests other than just the rich, you would never be suggesting something as thoroughly Un-American as depriving millions of citizens of the vote. The greatest threat to American liberty isn't socialism, but unbridled capitalism championed by the wealthy and their army of inbred tea bagger cretins.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Okay then, let's have a vote that Kraichgauer's money is taxed to build a pool in let's say Vigilan's yard.


You can feel free to take the money for the pool OUT OF THE SALES TAX I PAY EVERY TIME I PURCHASE A NON-FOOD ITEM FROM THE STORE!
So yes, Inuyasha, I do in fact pay a tax. Regardless, my right to cast a vote isn't dependent on how much Goddamn taxes I pay, or how much property I own.
To paraphrase Kieth Olbermann, "The weakest citizen of this country is of more worth than it's largest corporation." And if you can't get behind that, then every bit of your talk of supporting free government and justice has been proven to be just so much sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


For the record, there is no National Sales Tax in the United States.

Anyways, I'm not talking about you choosing to participate in commerce anyways, so the sales tax argument is a red herring. I'm saying we should hike your taxes on the money you earn to pay for a pool for Vigilans, and since Vigilans has no yard... You now have to pay for a brand new house and a yard for Vigilans to put a pool in it.


I pay a state sales tax, so neener neener.
And if everyone got a yard and a pool from tax money, then that would be a lot more fair - as is the case now for the tax system. You conservatives are just bitching and moaning that your rich friends (masters) are taxed to a larger extent. But they pay more because of the size of their income, not because they're being single out as a discriminated against group.

And thus I repeat - neener neener!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

18 Nov 2011, 3:22 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?


Probably 5 to 15% of your income and when rich people's taxes go up, yours go up accordingly.

I'm taking the "wealthy's" side in this because they are the ones that are being wronged here, not the poor. It's easy to spend other people's money Kraichgauer, but you would take a much different stance if it was your money being wasted.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You know what, they might actually be onto something. You aren't paying taxes, so why should you get to vote?

Now what I think is you should actually be paying a percentage of your income, not having your right to vote taken away because you're not rich, the fact is they have a point.

You are advocating spending other people's money and forcing them to pay more and more so you can spend more and more of their money. I guarentee you that you wouldn't be supporting the Democrats tax and spend mentality if it was your taxes we were talking about raising too.

There is a difference between taxes and outright theft, and I'm going to argue that Democrats are trying to cross that line.


My right to vote is just that - a right. It's not incumbent on how much money I have, or on how much taxes I pay.
It just goes to show, the idea that conservatives represent ordinary Americans better than so-called out of touch liberals is just a load of sh**. If you people represented anyone's interests other than just the rich, you would never be suggesting something as thoroughly Un-American as depriving millions of citizens of the vote. The greatest threat to American liberty isn't socialism, but unbridled capitalism championed by the wealthy and their army of inbred tea bagger cretins.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Okay then, let's have a vote that Kraichgauer's money is taxed to build a pool in let's say Vigilan's yard.


You can feel free to take the money for the pool OUT OF THE SALES TAX I PAY EVERY TIME I PURCHASE A NON-FOOD ITEM FROM THE STORE!
So yes, Inuyasha, I do in fact pay a tax. Regardless, my right to cast a vote isn't dependent on how much Goddamn taxes I pay, or how much property I own.
To paraphrase Kieth Olbermann, "The weakest citizen of this country is of more worth than it's largest corporation." And if you can't get behind that, then every bit of your talk of supporting free government and justice has been proven to be just so much sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


For the record, there is no National Sales Tax in the United States.

Anyways, I'm not talking about you choosing to participate in commerce anyways, so the sales tax argument is a red herring. I'm saying we should hike your taxes on the money you earn to pay for a pool for Vigilans, and since Vigilans has no yard... You now have to pay for a brand new house and a yard for Vigilans to put a pool in it.


I pay a state sales tax, so neener neener.
And if everyone got a yard and a pool from tax money, then that would be a lot more fair - as is the case now for the tax system. You conservatives are just bitching and moaning that your rich friends (masters) are taxed to a larger extent. But they pay more because of the size of their income, not because they're being single out as a discriminated against group.

And thus I repeat - neener neener!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I don't care about fair. Cause you're making money which is apparently wrong, you have to pay for all this stuff for Vigilans whom isn't making money, you don't like it too bad. Oh and Jacoby down the way doesn't have to pay for it, cause he's buddy buddy with some politicians.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

18 Nov 2011, 3:33 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?


Probably 5 to 15% of your income and when rich people's taxes go up, yours go up accordingly.

I'm taking the "wealthy's" side in this because they are the ones that are being wronged here, not the poor. It's easy to spend other people's money Kraichgauer, but you would take a much different stance if it was your money being wasted.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You know what, they might actually be onto something. You aren't paying taxes, so why should you get to vote?

Now what I think is you should actually be paying a percentage of your income, not having your right to vote taken away because you're not rich, the fact is they have a point.

You are advocating spending other people's money and forcing them to pay more and more so you can spend more and more of their money. I guarentee you that you wouldn't be supporting the Democrats tax and spend mentality if it was your taxes we were talking about raising too.

There is a difference between taxes and outright theft, and I'm going to argue that Democrats are trying to cross that line.


My right to vote is just that - a right. It's not incumbent on how much money I have, or on how much taxes I pay.
It just goes to show, the idea that conservatives represent ordinary Americans better than so-called out of touch liberals is just a load of sh**. If you people represented anyone's interests other than just the rich, you would never be suggesting something as thoroughly Un-American as depriving millions of citizens of the vote. The greatest threat to American liberty isn't socialism, but unbridled capitalism championed by the wealthy and their army of inbred tea bagger cretins.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Okay then, let's have a vote that Kraichgauer's money is taxed to build a pool in let's say Vigilan's yard.


You can feel free to take the money for the pool OUT OF THE SALES TAX I PAY EVERY TIME I PURCHASE A NON-FOOD ITEM FROM THE STORE!
So yes, Inuyasha, I do in fact pay a tax. Regardless, my right to cast a vote isn't dependent on how much Goddamn taxes I pay, or how much property I own.
To paraphrase Kieth Olbermann, "The weakest citizen of this country is of more worth than it's largest corporation." And if you can't get behind that, then every bit of your talk of supporting free government and justice has been proven to be just so much sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


For the record, there is no National Sales Tax in the United States.

Anyways, I'm not talking about you choosing to participate in commerce anyways, so the sales tax argument is a red herring. I'm saying we should hike your taxes on the money you earn to pay for a pool for Vigilans, and since Vigilans has no yard... You now have to pay for a brand new house and a yard for Vigilans to put a pool in it.


I pay a state sales tax, so neener neener.
And if everyone got a yard and a pool from tax money, then that would be a lot more fair - as is the case now for the tax system. You conservatives are just bitching and moaning that your rich friends (masters) are taxed to a larger extent. But they pay more because of the size of their income, not because they're being single out as a discriminated against group.

And thus I repeat - neener neener!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I don't care about fair. Cause you're making money which is apparently wrong, you have to pay for all this stuff for Vigilans whom isn't making money, you don't like it too bad. Oh and Jacoby down the way doesn't have to pay for it, cause he's buddy buddy with some politicians.


You seem to forget that several times in the past, I have described myself and my wife as living in genteel poverty without a pot to piss in. Kind of the downside of living as artsy but impoverished bohemians. So I bet I can match Vigilans in poverty, if that is indeed a competition.
That means, both Vigilans and I should get a pool, and we're looking at you.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

18 Nov 2011, 3:34 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?


Probably 5 to 15% of your income and when rich people's taxes go up, yours go up accordingly.

I'm taking the "wealthy's" side in this because they are the ones that are being wronged here, not the poor. It's easy to spend other people's money Kraichgauer, but you would take a much different stance if it was your money being wasted.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You know what, they might actually be onto something. You aren't paying taxes, so why should you get to vote?

Now what I think is you should actually be paying a percentage of your income, not having your right to vote taken away because you're not rich, the fact is they have a point.

You are advocating spending other people's money and forcing them to pay more and more so you can spend more and more of their money. I guarentee you that you wouldn't be supporting the Democrats tax and spend mentality if it was your taxes we were talking about raising too.

There is a difference between taxes and outright theft, and I'm going to argue that Democrats are trying to cross that line.


My right to vote is just that - a right. It's not incumbent on how much money I have, or on how much taxes I pay.
It just goes to show, the idea that conservatives represent ordinary Americans better than so-called out of touch liberals is just a load of sh**. If you people represented anyone's interests other than just the rich, you would never be suggesting something as thoroughly Un-American as depriving millions of citizens of the vote. The greatest threat to American liberty isn't socialism, but unbridled capitalism championed by the wealthy and their army of inbred tea bagger cretins.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Okay then, let's have a vote that Kraichgauer's money is taxed to build a pool in let's say Vigilan's yard.


You can feel free to take the money for the pool OUT OF THE SALES TAX I PAY EVERY TIME I PURCHASE A NON-FOOD ITEM FROM THE STORE!
So yes, Inuyasha, I do in fact pay a tax. Regardless, my right to cast a vote isn't dependent on how much Goddamn taxes I pay, or how much property I own.
To paraphrase Kieth Olbermann, "The weakest citizen of this country is of more worth than it's largest corporation." And if you can't get behind that, then every bit of your talk of supporting free government and justice has been proven to be just so much sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


For the record, there is no National Sales Tax in the United States.

Anyways, I'm not talking about you choosing to participate in commerce anyways, so the sales tax argument is a red herring. I'm saying we should hike your taxes on the money you earn to pay for a pool for Vigilans, and since Vigilans has no yard... You now have to pay for a brand new house and a yard for Vigilans to put a pool in it.


I pay a state sales tax, so neener neener.
And if everyone got a yard and a pool from tax money, then that would be a lot more fair - as is the case now for the tax system. You conservatives are just bitching and moaning that your rich friends (masters) are taxed to a larger extent. But they pay more because of the size of their income, not because they're being single out as a discriminated against group.

And thus I repeat - neener neener!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I don't care about fair. Cause you're making money which is apparently wrong, you have to pay for all this stuff for Vigilans whom isn't making money, you don't like it too bad. Oh and Jacoby down the way doesn't have to pay for it, cause he's buddy buddy with some politicians.


You seem to forget that several times in the past, I have described myself and my wife as living in genteel poverty without a pot to piss in. Kind of the downside of living as artsy but impoverished bohemians. So I bet I can match Vigilans in poverty, if that is indeed a competition.
That means, both Vigilans and I should get a pool, and we're looking at you, as you think the wealthy you seem to think are such demigods ought to be beyond taxation.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

18 Nov 2011, 3:37 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.


I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?


Probably 5 to 15% of your income and when rich people's taxes go up, yours go up accordingly.

I'm taking the "wealthy's" side in this because they are the ones that are being wronged here, not the poor. It's easy to spend other people's money Kraichgauer, but you would take a much different stance if it was your money being wasted.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You know what, they might actually be onto something. You aren't paying taxes, so why should you get to vote?

Now what I think is you should actually be paying a percentage of your income, not having your right to vote taken away because you're not rich, the fact is they have a point.

You are advocating spending other people's money and forcing them to pay more and more so you can spend more and more of their money. I guarentee you that you wouldn't be supporting the Democrats tax and spend mentality if it was your taxes we were talking about raising too.

There is a difference between taxes and outright theft, and I'm going to argue that Democrats are trying to cross that line.


My right to vote is just that - a right. It's not incumbent on how much money I have, or on how much taxes I pay.
It just goes to show, the idea that conservatives represent ordinary Americans better than so-called out of touch liberals is just a load of sh**. If you people represented anyone's interests other than just the rich, you would never be suggesting something as thoroughly Un-American as depriving millions of citizens of the vote. The greatest threat to American liberty isn't socialism, but unbridled capitalism championed by the wealthy and their army of inbred tea bagger cretins.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Okay then, let's have a vote that Kraichgauer's money is taxed to build a pool in let's say Vigilan's yard.


You can feel free to take the money for the pool OUT OF THE SALES TAX I PAY EVERY TIME I PURCHASE A NON-FOOD ITEM FROM THE STORE!
So yes, Inuyasha, I do in fact pay a tax. Regardless, my right to cast a vote isn't dependent on how much Goddamn taxes I pay, or how much property I own.
To paraphrase Kieth Olbermann, "The weakest citizen of this country is of more worth than it's largest corporation." And if you can't get behind that, then every bit of your talk of supporting free government and justice has been proven to be just so much sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


For the record, there is no National Sales Tax in the United States.

Anyways, I'm not talking about you choosing to participate in commerce anyways, so the sales tax argument is a red herring. I'm saying we should hike your taxes on the money you earn to pay for a pool for Vigilans, and since Vigilans has no yard... You now have to pay for a brand new house and a yard for Vigilans to put a pool in it.


I pay a state sales tax, so neener neener.
And if everyone got a yard and a pool from tax money, then that would be a lot more fair - as is the case now for the tax system. You conservatives are just bitching and moaning that your rich friends (masters) are taxed to a larger extent. But they pay more because of the size of their income, not because they're being single out as a discriminated against group.

And thus I repeat - neener neener!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I don't care about fair. Cause you're making money which is apparently wrong, you have to pay for all this stuff for Vigilans whom isn't making money, you don't like it too bad. Oh and Jacoby down the way doesn't have to pay for it, cause he's buddy buddy with some politicians.


You seem to forget that several times in the past, I have described myself and my wife as living in genteel poverty without a pot to piss in. Kind of the downside of living as artsy but impoverished bohemians. So I bet I can match Vigilans in poverty, if that is indeed a competition.
That means, both Vigilans and I should get a pool, and we're looking at you.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You're not getting my money either, you're paying for Vigilan's pool whether you like it or not. Doesn't matter how much money you're making, if you refuse we'll just throw you in jail and sell off your assets.

What I find is hysterical is that you have no problems taking other people's money, and you see a problem with people taking your money.



JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

18 Nov 2011, 4:29 pm

I have no problem taking other peoples money.
I also have no problem with people taking mine.

I call it working and shopping. :()


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/