What is proof of God?

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Spacebrain. Good name.

@Rocky

How can science perceive these things? Bohm, a brilliant scientist, wrote about the Implicate Order but what did he actually perceive? I have read he was a Buddhist. So how should scientists perceive reality beyond what the senses allow? What are they able to perceive? I assume you do not allow for a sixth sense, or if you do how can science explain it. Things that can be measured using instruments are natural. And if the supernatural impinges on the natural world, then atheists as I have seen it explain these things away.

Grebel, are you saying that you are *receiving* this supernatural "signal" that science can't detect, or are you saying that you *think* it is there?

For eternity minus a little over 100 years, nobody could detect a radio signal, even using cutting edge science. Saying that something is supernatural doesn't make it so.

Maybe the supernatural can be detected, but I am not aware of this being done on a scientific basis. I have heard the Russians did research into ESP and such, but I don't know, what do you believe there? If it is true they did, then did they find out how it works? One problem of subjecting the supernatural to laboratory tests is sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I have been trying to say that faith thinking is not usually the same as normal, everyday thought. Words like belief take on a new depth of meaning. If I have a transcendental experience, and by the way most Christians probably don't like that kind of word choice, it goes well beyond thinking. Now think about prayer. I definitely do not mean the 'Dear Santa I want me bike' kind of thing. If I decide to pray about something then I need to be in tune with God's Holy Spirit. I can imagine all the howls of derisive laughter as I write. Prayer is not just about what I want. I cannot have that red Ferrari. It is about what God wants, for me and many other people. But I do have a good track record of praying for things and getting answers. So, what would you call emperical proof concerning answered prayer?

Well, I have taken a skeptic's view on ESP, and although both the Russians and the Americans (and undoubtedly many others) have done research on such phenomena, I have seen nothing that convinces me. I am certainly open for results, but I think the burden of proof is on the "believers" in that matter. Here, for instance: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

Transcendence and spirituality. Hm. I have certainly had some experiences that I would file under those labels. Some drug related, some nature related, some unrelated. I have also had experiences that I do not think that science has come up with good ways of dealing with. The feeling you get when you have spent all day on skis getting to the top of a lonely mountain and finally make it does not really have a name, and it can not be administered by any other ways than trudging away through pain and bad weather and then letting the vastness (and sense of accomplishment) sink in while you're on top. The day they come up with a drug for that I will recommend it for those who cannot get to the top on their own accord.
I could mention many other experiences that I would call spiritual (for lack of a word that doesn't imply "spirits"), like becoming a father or simply being loved by your children. We all share those.

As for the power of prayer, I don't know, man. The few attempts at using science to prove the power of prayer have done two things:
1) failed at showing a correlation between prayer and any measurable effect, and
2) shown a deep hypocrisy on the side of the faithful - the desire to come up with scientific proof for things they claim are outside the realm of science.

I'm not going to say that your prayers are pointless, but I suspect you are attributing the cause of the effects you see using a healthy dose of wishful thinking.

even the cia spent millions on the subject with the disticnt impression of bullcrap to boot.

Why do you assume that anything specific exists that can not be verified through testing? I acknowledge that things exist that can not be verified through current methods, but believing anything specific requires a leap of faith.

People tend to believe in religions that have been around a long time more than new ones, but the old ones were made when we thought the earth was flat and that the sun circled the Earth. If the authors of these old religions had access to knowledge beyond the senses, why did they still believe these things about Earth, for example?