Stop using guns to kill things!

Page 9 of 21 [ 332 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 21 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

23 Jul 2012, 4:03 pm

Vigilans wrote:

The rifle he was using a drum magazine with jammed anyway. Extended magazine or not, it didn't apparently make much of a difference in the shooting

Loughner's Glock jammed on it's extended clip too. My experience with extended magazines has been that they do require more discipline from the shooter to work correctly, allowing the gun to recoil too much ("limp wristing") can cause centripetal force to lift the bullets in the magazine in such a way as to cause a jam, especially in Glocks. Most drum magazines used on rifles have to be wound up like a clockwork toy, and there are many more things than can go wrong than with a simple spring-loaded magazine. There is a reason that you might see extended magazines at the range and in the movies but not so much among the military and police, they just train to change magazines relatively quickly.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

23 Jul 2012, 4:06 pm

Dox47 wrote:

There is a reason that you might see extended magazines at the range and in the movies but not so much among the military and police, they just train to change magazines relatively quickly.

Or they can be taped together side by side like this:

I think a determined and experienced shooter will be able to fire the amount he wants quickly and accurately regardless of magazine size

_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do

simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

23 Jul 2012, 4:17 pm

Vigilans wrote:

The rifle he was using a drum magazine with jammed anyway. Extended magazine or not, it didn't apparently make much of a difference in the shooting

I read he also had extended magazines for his pistol. And we don't yet know how many rounds were left in the AR-15. So it's difficult to say how much advantage it gave him.

There are several accounts from people who escaped while he was reloading. A ten round magazine would have given them more opportunities. He was obviously relying on volume of fire, not shooting expertise.

thewhitrbbit
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 May 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,124

23 Jul 2012, 5:10 pm

There is a famous saying "God made them all, Colt made them all equal."

A gun is the great equalizer. With what other weapon could a 90lb man defend himself against a 200lb muscleman attacker? With what other weapon could a man defend himself against multiple attackers? How about the rapist who can over power his victim? Not when she shoots him.

Guns save more lives than they take, but we don't hear about that. We don't hear about the hundreds of times a criminal breaks in a house and runs away when the home owner pulls a gun. We don't hear about the thousands of times in Shall Issue states criminals think twice about a crime because the victim might be armed.

I do feel horrible for those who died,but I try to keep perspective. Could a gun ban have saved those lives? Maybe, (criminals don't usually obey the law) but how many other cases of self defense would have gone the other way.

And after all, in the USA, criminals are exempt from gun control. US v. Haynes (1968) held that criminals don't need to register guns because it would amount to self incrimination.

HereComesTheRain
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 179

23 Jul 2012, 5:12 pm

Quote:

They don't use AR15's with drum clips, or glocks with extended clips. You know why? Because they are good enough shots to hit what they aim at, and cougars or bears - and generally even coyotes - don't attack en masse. The only reason to have that much firepower is if you're unsure of your aim (in which case, you're best off with a shotgun) or if you want to cause lots of casualties. Or if you want to play with them - and I'm fine with having special, regulated ranges where people can go and check out these guns to play with them, and then give them back at the end of the day.

You can't take down a giant grizzly bear with a handgun or a shotgun, simple as that. For the most aggressive of all bears, I wouldn't trust buckshot. A 44 straight to the vital parts is the only way to take down a bear. Where I live, there's always an outside chance of seeing a bear or a cougar.

HereComesTheRain
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 179

23 Jul 2012, 5:18 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:

That reminds me of something that happened on the bus around here. Some hoodrat kids were talking about how they wanted to pop this suburb's houses. I then made a phone call to all my friends from that same suburb and told them to spread the word that there's going to be a crime spree in the area and to get their guns ready. The hoodrats' look on their faces turned from arrogance to outright shock and fear. There was no crime spree, although the hoodrats did try to get into my face. I simply did another form of self defense on them when I kicked a pole as hard as I could and pointed in their direction. They looked even more mortified.

Moral of the story: Crooks are cowards who only fear brutality.

JanuaryMan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 1 Jan 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,359

23 Jul 2012, 5:19 pm

HereComesTheRain wrote:

You could take one out if you were Chuck Norris :lol:

or just an incredible marksman that can aim at the eyes, temporal lobe and groin without batting an eyelid. But yeah, it's tough otherwise.

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

23 Jul 2012, 5:47 pm

JanuaryMan wrote:

HereComesTheRain wrote:

You could take one out if you were Chuck Norris :lol:

or just an incredible marksman that can aim at the eyes, temporal lobe and groin without batting an eyelid. But yeah, it's tough otherwise.

A guy beat a grizzly to death a few years back with a tree limb, but I'm not planning on trading in my 10mm auto for a club anytime soon. Talk about bragging rights though...

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

23 Jul 2012, 5:57 pm

HereComesTheRain wrote:

Quote:

Grizzlies are successfully taken with big bore magnum handguns fairly often, simple as that.
A short barreled shotgun with slugs (sometimes 00 buckshot, too) are commonly carried in bear country, as well.

Quote:

A 44 straight to the vital parts is the only way to take down a bear.

Usually a "44" is a handgun or at least a handgun caliber carbine.

Either way it's irrelevant to the shooting in Aurora that some unprincipled people are using as a springboard to more gun control.

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

23 Jul 2012, 6:12 pm

LKL wrote:

Quote:

You know what, though? They use handguns with regular clips, or hunting rifles. They don't use AR15's with drum clips, or glocks with extended clips. You know why? Because they are good enough shots to hit what they aim at, and cougars or bears - and generally even coyotes - don't attack en masse. The only reason to have that much firepower is if you're unsure of your aim (in which case, you're best off with a shotgun) or if you want to cause lots of casualties. Or if you want to play with them - and I'm fine with having special, regulated ranges where people can go and check out these guns to play with them, and then give them back at the end of the day.

It really doesn't matter what a hi-capacity magazine is good for in anyone's opinion.
It wouldn't make much difference if those idiots in Washington banned hi-cap mags or not, as many millions of them that are already in the public sector.

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

23 Jul 2012, 6:15 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ufkwTM82e4[/youtube]I wish we were more like Switzerland, and people wonder why switzerland has very little crime! Because everybody owns a gun.

_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

23 Jul 2012, 7:23 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ufkwTM82e4[/youtube]I wish we were more like Switzerland, and people wonder why switzerland has very little crime! Because everybody owns a gun.

I've always admired the way the Swiss have their national defense set up. It's a success story any small country (or even a larger one) could learn from.

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

thewhitrbbit
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 May 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,124

23 Jul 2012, 10:58 pm

America used to be like that. While General Yamato probably never actually said "I cannot invade America, there is a rifle behind every blade of grass" the general sentiment is true.

For someone to invade America or Switzerland would be incredibly hard. Why do you see dictatorships always ban civilian ownership of firearms?

http://www.gainesville.com/article/2012 ... ?p=2&tc=ar

This shows a great video of what happens when two little hoodrats encounter a law abiding citizen with a firearm.

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

24 Jul 2012, 7:43 am

thewhitrbbit wrote:

Quote:

This shows a great video of what happens when two little hoodrats encounter a law abiding citizen with a firearm.

The expressions on their faces must have been priceless the moment the tables turned.
From smug confidence to terror in the space of a second or two.

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

LKL
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,402

24 Jul 2012, 11:54 pm

HereComesTheRain wrote:

Quote:

My grandpa (in his 70's) took two black bears with a regular hunting rifle. No Grizzlies in my state, nor in most of the lower 48. I have no problem with people in rural areas carrying the weapons they need to protect themselves from the wildlife that lives there.

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

25 Jul 2012, 2:47 am

LKL wrote:

HereComesTheRain wrote:

Quote:

The trick to killing bears with a rifle is shoot them in the brain this works on grizzlies as well. My grandfather used to hunt bears all the time back in the day.

Page 9 of 21 [ 332 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 21 Next

Jump to:

Stop using guns to kill things! Post Reply New Topic

Stop using guns to kill things!