Feminists versus MRA's at Toronto College

Page 9 of 9 [ 139 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,791
Location: Where two great rivers meet

18 Apr 2013, 9:23 pm

But there are people arguing that women should not take any precautions at all, and that's where I disagree. The way I see it with this stuff, there must be a balance between not taking so many precautions that they get into the way of day to day living, or not so few that it makes it too risky. For example, I recognize that it sucks that a woman is at increased risk if she drinks too much, for example, and in an ideal world she should be able to without fearing for her safety, but meanwhile keeping from excessive drinking or being with a trustworthy group are adequate measures against that.

Reading mds's post, well, I don't disagree with anything. Precautions are useful, but they don't solve the problem. If someone fails to take precautions he or she should not be blamed for it. Ways to solve the problem are educating people about rape, women to come forward about it and men to stop doing in, except the extreme cases that should go to jail. Such education takes time, so in the meantime precautions should be taken.

Basically, my argument is NOT "take precautions and it will be k". It is "keep with the rape awareness movement and educating people about it, but don't lower your guard meanwhile. Taking precautions sucks and should not happen, but we should not base our decisions on how the world should be, but on how the world is."

_________________
To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day. - Winston Churchill

mds_02
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,077
Location: Los Angeles

18 Apr 2013, 9:36 pm

Shatbat wrote:

"keep with the rape awareness movement and educating people about it, but don't lower your guard meanwhile. Taking precautions sucks and should not happen, but we should not base our decisions on how the world should be, but on how the world is."

Exactly what I believe, only much more concise.

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

19 Apr 2013, 11:53 am

mds_02 wrote:

Did I say it happened more often to men? Did I say anything at all regarding the prevalence of male rape vs. female rape? I did not. If you want respond to me, or challenge the points I make, that's fine. But try reading what I actually write first, instead of using it as a jumping off point for an entirely unrelated tangent.

I pointed out that those men to whom it does happen are on the receiving end of just as much victim-blaming as women. To imply that they are not, which the piece LKL quoted, and you agreed with, most certainly did, is insulting. I do not see why the writer of that piece felt the need to deny the experience of one group of rape victims in order to make a point about the experience of another group. It accomplishes nothing other than to alienate people who've experienced the exact same trauma and the exact same ill-treatment by society, people who could, and should, be counted as valuable allies in the fight against our culture's acceptance of rape.

I see my response was completely lost on you. Perhaps before you make angry rebukes about reading you should first understand what it is you are replying to.

What is clear is you are making a large series of assumptions about the authors intentions with the single line I quoted (stop telling me I agree with that entire post, I never once said anything of the kind). There is no denial of anything, it is clearly a mockery of the victim-blaming responses women have been subjected to for centuries. Understand now?

_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

19 Apr 2013, 12:30 pm

Vigilans wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

mds_02 wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

LKL wrote:

Don’t wear anything too douchey. If you’re wearing a fedora or a sexist t-shirt, etc. you’re pretty much asking to get attacked. Misandrists can’t control themselves when they see a man in a fedora, their instincts kick in and before they know it they have a dead male corpse in their hands. Just be a good boy and don’t tempt them, okay?

This line is the best.

When a man is raped you don't tend to hear people talking about what he was wearing and whether it was "provocative"

Yeah, cause male victims of rape and sexual assault are taken so seriously.

I was staying out of this thread originally because it was about two groups, both of whose attitudes and methods I find ridiculous, butting heads. f**k 'em, let them fight it out, what do I care?

But this off-topic stuff comparing male and female rape victims, trying to make it seem as though male victims are taken seriously and not blamed for it, is some of the most ignorant BS I've ever read.

When it happens to men you don't hear people talking about it at all. Most won't even acknowledge that it can happen to a man in the first place. And most of those who do acknowledge it consider it a f***ing joke.

I was raped..kind of ashamed and embarresed to admit it but it happened! Had a woman spike my drink and take advantage of my body without giving her my consent! I just know not to go to house parties with people I dont know very well any more let alone leave my drink unattended! As a guy if I reported it the police would laugh at me about it and not believe me! But maybe thats part of the patriarchy!

Did you actually go to the police or did you just make an assumption about what their reaction would be?

The latter! Chances though are they would laugh about it and not give a s**t!

_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList

Ancalagon
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302

19 Apr 2013, 11:53 pm

Vigilans wrote:

I see my response was completely lost on you.

That's because it didn't make sense. You quoted something mds_02 said, then said that what he'd said wasn't true, then went on to talk about something he hadn't brought up at all. None of it had anything to do with what mds_02 said.

Quote:

it is clearly a mockery of the victim-blaming responses women have been subjected to for centuries.

I'm surprised to see you trying to support it. It's essentially exactly what you were objecting to so strongly before, except that if it were intended to be an actual argument (rather than merely humorous) it doesn't work well, since it doesn't try to exactly mirror the opponent's argument. For that reason, I assume it was meant to be funny, not serious.

_________________
"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it." --G. K. Chesterton

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

20 Apr 2013, 10:02 am

Ancalagon wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

I see my response was completely lost on you.

Quote:

it is clearly a mockery of the victim-blaming responses women have been subjected to for centuries.

Oh look, Colonel Tedium is back at it again. I see my posts are still irresistible to you despite your messages claiming the contrary (no surprise there). Décrisser, I'm having a discussion with mds_02 and other members who can actually participate in a discussion. You're dismissed

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

20 Apr 2013, 10:04 am

AspieOtaku wrote:

The latter! Chances though are they would laugh about it and not give a sh**!

It was a month or so ago that a man being assaulted sexually by four women made headlines across my country; perhaps our cognitive dissonance is geographic in nature (same to mds_02)

Ancalagon
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302

20 Apr 2013, 12:34 pm

Vigilans wrote:

I see my posts are still irresistible to you despite your messages claiming the contrary

Posts that are condescending push my buttons. Posts that make illogical arguments also push my buttons.

Your reply to mds_02 was condescending and defended an illogical argument (specifically a non-sequitur).

It is not posts being from you that gets me to respond; posts that push my buttons do that.

Quote:

I'm having a discussion with mds_02 and other members who can actually participate in a discussion. You're dismissed

For future reference, if you want to play the "we're having an adult conversation here" card, perhaps you should consider leaving childish insults like "Colonel Tedium" out.

If you wish to address any of the three points I brought up (that your response to mds_02 was a non-sequitur, that what you are supporting now and what you objected to then are essentially the same, and that it seems more like humor than a serious argument), then feel free to do so.

_________________
"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it." --G. K. Chesterton

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

20 Apr 2013, 1:46 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

More useless, animosity driven, half witted drivel

Trust me, zero f**ks have been given. Your opinion is completely worthless to me as are any more of your attempts to derail this thread. Now run along and find someone else to bother wee lad, because I'm done playing your idiotic game

AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

20 Apr 2013, 2:46 pm

Vigilans wrote:

I quoted a specific line, not the one you are mentioning. It was an excellent counter to the repeated argument that women should dress a certain way to avoid rape. I find this argument not only insulting towards women but insulting towards men. I am not an animal, I am not provoked into losing my good sense and committing Ur crime by the way a woman dresses, neither are most men. My commentary had nothing to do with the "drink spiking" line so I have no idea what you're going on about

That line doesn't exist in a vacuum. It ties into the overall subject of victim blaming and while that line is a good example of it, the rest serve either as sorry excuses for a lack of precautionary measures or as strawmen and it's the biggest issue I have with feminism. But anyways I'm not gonna bust your balls over it so I'll leave it at that.

Kjas wrote:

I was taking precautions when I was raped, that did not stop it from happening.

I'm sorry to hear that. I wasn't trying to say that precautionary measures are a guarantee but that it gives them less opportunities.

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

20 Apr 2013, 3:28 pm

thread locked. gave it a couple of chances to get back on track but that's about enough.

_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105

Page 9 of 9 [ 139 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

Jump to:

Feminists versus MRA's at Toronto College Post Reply New Topic

Feminists versus MRA's at Toronto College