A lesson for the left/'liberals'

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Bill-

Depends on what we define as loyal to the country. It's not "controversial", it was beyond despicable. Can you imagine if Russia said that the US won't stop with their neocon wars and need to be stopped, so they nuked New York and Washington? And the explanation is that it "saved lives". Also, with Japan the excuses are even more insane.

cyberdad-

No, I was just talking about people who've said something racist online. If German soldiers gave away secrets from the Nazis, should they have been locked away?

Still not grasping it are you. There's a difference between Nazi Holocaust deniers and revisionists. Benjamin Netanyahu is a Holocaust Denier by the official laws, as he said that Hitler didn't want to kill Jews but a nasty Palestinian Mufti made him do it.

There's always a choice. If the Britain wanted to attack Germany they should have done it a year before and/or supported the Czechs. Or we should have accepted Hitler's peace offer in 1940 and let Nazis and Soviets fight it out, weakening one and destroying the other. And after all that the Soviets got Poland anyway.

I'm talking about a real hot war, which WWII's Pacific Theater was. It was a choice Truman made, now it's up to posterity to determine if it was the right one.

It wouldn't have been down to just Truman. It was a case of 'you attack our military in our country and we'll nuke your civilians just to show you don't f**k with us'.

The targets where military bases , the civilians were collateral Damage , unlike the Dresden bombing which was a revenge attack for London.
Even after the first abomb the Japanese refused to surrender. They intended to fight to the last baby to defend the emperor. They told their civilians we'd rape and kill them all brutally, that we were sub human monsters, their civilians strapped bombs to their kids and sent them into the American lines to kill Americans, others committed mass suicide via the ceremony death or just leaping off a cliff(whole towns) the emperor telling them it was over was the only thing that stopped the deaths. They believe him to be a god and we're prepared to die for their god rather then face the propaganda they were told.
Our troops did horrible stuff too. I can understand shooting Japanese who tried to surrender or Germans for that matter, they'd pretend to surrender then blow themselves and our troops up. They fault very dirty near the end. The Japanese didn't see us as humans and it was against their code to surrender. Lead to a brutal war. But taking body parts of dead Japanese troops is horrible.

The Japanese have never apologized for their genocide of Chinese, or the mistreatments, of alien troops, the death marches the cleansing of pow camps before they could be liberated. The expirments on pows and civilians of occupied territories. The us apologized for the bombs. The Japanese have mueusms that talk good about the above. They honor men who commited crimes against humanity. But that's their government and bunch of people. I don't hold it against average Japanese u less they say they hold those beliefs.

A lot of war criminals on both sides got away Scott free, got to live full happy life's, is terrible. We spared a lot to keep the peace in both Japan and Germany. We spared high level ones to get to space. Allied war criminals were never put on trial for their crimes because we won and so their crimes were excused and covered up. Wars are messy and their after math is confusing times. I wish all the guilty men and women could been punished.

I wonder if hitler been and emperor and god to Germans would we spared him to keep the peace like we did the Japanese emperor. If he'd not been a god leader they would have put him on trial and probably publicly executed him, instead he lived a long life in luxury. Imagine hitler being allowed to keep his title and go to head of state dinners. Including at the whitehouse.

Most of them are dead now. Though there's still a few ww2 war criminals alive , think they caught one last year in his 90s and sentenced him. I agree with it. There isn't a limit on crimes against humanity

What source is there to back that up?

"collateral Damage" Makes me want to puke. Of course you're just repeating US propaganda. People resort to desperate measures in desperate situations. I'm not defending it or revolting actions by the Japanese, but let's not pretend the US was better, when they are/were far worse.

The first nuke was a test. And really, that's the stance? Oh they didn't surrender after being nuked once so the obvious answer is to nuke them again? That's repulsive. The Japanese didn't see the Americans as humans? Think you've got that mixed up. The Japanese were seen as vermin. Even after they'd surrendered 1000 US planes were sent out for a routine bombing spree just to put some icing on the cake.

It's what the US always do. They basically said it in as many words when they overthrew the democratically elected leader in Iran 50 odd years ago because he was nationalising the oil. And what I mentioned about the 1000 planes just been sent after the surrender to drop a load of bombs on people.

Yes, the US hasn't always had pure motives, but it must not be forgotten that the Japanese had attacked us first.
As for another conversation you are having simultaneously to this one: yes, Americans saw the Japanese as less than human, but that prejudice wasn't one sided. Japanese nationalism had been very much influenced by their Nazi allies, and so the Japanese saw their enemies as having lives not worthy of life. The atrocities committed at Nanking and the rest of China, and the horrific treatment of Allied prisoners of war was living proof of this.

Plenty of dictators responsible for mass murder of civilians were under the protection of the US government. All these dictators had to do is say they were "anti-communist"
http://bennorton.com/wikileaks-us-suppo ... ast-today/

Why did Japan attack the US though? And some have said the US had prior knowledge. Japan attacks the US so the US go into North Africa and support a Nazi and then reinstate on in Italy after the resistance movement had taken one down.

the Japanese were still convinced that in a naval war, their ships, planes and personnel were at least as modern and plentiful, if not more numerous and qualitatively better than what was available to the United States. The growing isolationism of the United States that had been championed by the likes of icons like Walt Disney and Charles Lindbergh, the persistent Depression, and the fact that the United States had not intervened in Europe, but instead watched Britain get battered for some 26 months from September 1939 to December 1941, suggested to many in the Japanese military command that the United States might either negotiate or respond only halfheartedly after Pearl Harbor, especially after the envisioned loss of the American carrier fleet.

Japanese intelligence about American productive potential was about as limited as German knowledge of the Soviet Union. In Tokyo’s view, if Japanese naval forces took out the American Pacific carriers at Pearl Harbor, there was simply no way for America, at least in the immediate future, to contradict any of their Pacific agendas. Nor on Dec. 7 could the Japanese even imagine that Germany might lose the war on the eastern front; more likely, Hitler seemed about to take Moscow, ending the continental ground conflict in Eurasia, and allowing him at last to finish off Great Britain. Britain’s fall, then, would mean that everything from India to Burma would soon be orphaned in the Pacific, and Japan would only have to deal with a vastly crippled and solitary United States. In short, for the Japanese, December 1941 seemed a good time to attack the United States – a provocation that would either likely be negotiated or end in a military defeat for the U.S

Obviously the calculated gamble didn't pay off...

The Japanese had interest in taking over the Pacific, and saw America as their number one rival. That, and America was sending aid to the downtrodden Chinese military advisors for training and weapons, along with oil and scrap metal embargos, which hardly made the Japanese happy.

Ahhh yes I forgot - the US based China lobby helped convince Congress to donate hard cash and many tons of war material in support of Chiang Kai-shek's war against the Japanese in China! I guess that must have rattled the emperor of the rising sun...

The US waited to come into the war because they wanted the British Empire destroyed, leaving them to take it over.

I'm sorry, but that's just paranoid. Sometimes some people's fortunes get lost, while the fortunes of others are made just by happenstance. Seriously, FDR wasn't going to take such a huge gamble as to allow the American fleet at Pearl Harbor be destroyed in order to enter a war and risk losing the whole Pacific just for a pipe dream of taking over the British Empire. And seriously, the US didn't - rather, western nations divested themselves of their colonies after the war, including England.

Totally ludicrous, despite isolationism the US economy was heavily involved with British investment not to mention assets held by both parties. The cartels of the 1900s evolved into multinationals by WWII

If you are thinking of Bretton Woods and the transfer of international currency from the gold standard to the US dollar this may have benefited the US but I doubt that was the reason they twiddled their thumbs while London was getting bombed