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monty
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24 Feb 2008, 12:08 pm

princess_1989 wrote:
God allows bad things to happen in order to test our endurance. He would never give too much to bare.


The problem with this common sentiment is that people often are given more than they can bear. The millions in the Nazi camps, the victims of machetes in Rwanda or bullets in Kampuchea were not tested to their limits. They were brutally annihilated. Let's not ignore the big picture and the tough questions. We don't know if there is a God, but it is clear that if there is, that God tolerates incredible evil.



Kilroy
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24 Feb 2008, 12:30 pm

princess_1989 wrote:
God allows bad things to happen in order to test our endurance. He would never give too much to bare. He loves us and wants to know that we will be faithful and acknowledge him in times of trouble.


something tells me he doesn't care about a lot of people
every time I used to pray things went bad
I reached where I am alone I refuse to pay any homage to this "god"
I personally hate everything about him, everything he talks about, just the whole idea really
how come the good suffer and the bad live in luxury :?



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24 Feb 2008, 2:05 pm

To put it very simply, there's a natural order to things and the rest is relatively incomprehensible.

On natural order of things: imagine what the world would be like if there was no disease and no death? It doesn't really make much sense to ask god to stop death and disease, since they're both deemed 'bad' by people. Should He stop the good things as well? All good and no bad?

As far as bad things go, death isn't a bad thing. Suffering is. And there will always be suffering, one way or another.

For those who believe in a Divine Plan...the whole thing is way too complex for the human mind to possibly comprehend. How can one question such motives?

For those who don't, well then..."things happen." Things happen to everybody.Once again, there's no way of knowing why nor what purpose they serve.

I'm a pessimist sittin' on the fence. I don't know anything.


EDIT: Turned out a bit confusing (for a change). I'm trying to see it from more than one angle.


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Last edited by SilverProteus on 24 Feb 2008, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Legato
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24 Feb 2008, 2:05 pm

Simple answer:

Bad stuff happens. Every person on this planet gets into f****d up situations. Deal with what happens in what ever way you can. A strong support network of family and friends helps.

The idea of this omnibenevolent creature watching over you might help you deal with it too, whatever, but the minute you assume that this creature exists, you bring in a whole world of hurt: disassociation from reality, judgementalness, and almost completely erradicate the necessity of logic for basic thought, and instead create a reality based upon how you would like the world to be.



Legato
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24 Feb 2008, 2:08 pm

SilverProteus wrote:
As far as bad things go, death isn't a bad thing. Suffering is. And there will always be suffering, one way or another.


Suffering in and of itself isn't a bad thing. We learn a lot from suffering. We grow stronger emotionally and psychologically. There is a certain degree of suffering, almost always when it's created by humans to purposely make another suffer, that it becomes "bad".

That's my opinion anyway :)



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24 Feb 2008, 2:15 pm

Legato wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
As far as bad things go, death isn't a bad thing. Suffering is. And there will always be suffering, one way or another.


Suffering in and of itself isn't a bad thing. We learn a lot from suffering. We grow stronger emotionally and psychologically. There is a certain degree of suffering, almost always when it's created by humans to purposely make another suffer, that it becomes "bad".

That's my opinion anyway :)


It's a bad thing when you're experiencing it. :P But I agree. We (usually) learn from our mistakes and 'grow'.

I blame the suffering caused by humans to purposely make the other suffer not God's problem, but the result of flawed humanity. Bullies, insecure people, people with problems - all sorts of problems - people problem.

Wanting a world where everybody's nice to everybody and we all 'get along' is extreme Utopian idealistic thinking and thus impossible. It's just too good to be true.;)


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Legato
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24 Feb 2008, 3:18 pm

Not only that but having a world where everybody's nice to everybody and we all 'get along' would be extremely horrible and boring. Ever read\watched 1984, Equilibrium, V for Vendetta, and a hundred others. That whole idea of everyone's nice and we all get along 100% of the time is nothing but a fascist ideal. The only way to make such a world possible is to make people the same. Take away our individuality, and everything that makes us different from each other.

Edit: You'll find a world like that feels more like slavery than life.



SilverProteus
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24 Feb 2008, 3:25 pm

Legato wrote:
Not only that but having a world where everybody's nice to everybody and we all 'get along' would be extremely horrible and boring. Ever read\watched 1984, Equilibrium, V for Vendetta, and a hundred others. That whole idea of everyone's nice and we all get along 100% of the time is nothing but a fascist ideal. The only way to make such a world possible is to make people the same. Take away our individuality, and everything that makes us different from each other.

Edit: You'll find a world like that feels more like slavery than life.


Interesting point of view. I agree on the "boring" aspect of it all.


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Tekneek
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14 Feb 2010, 1:35 pm

The important question is not really "Why does God allow bad things to happen?", but rather, "If God cannot prevent bad things from happening, why should I care about God?"



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14 Feb 2010, 3:09 pm

Tekneek wrote:
"If God cannot prevent bad things from happening, why should I care about God?"


No idea. I guess that if he interfered with our lives, it would, in a way, violate the freedom that He has given us.


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14 Feb 2010, 4:01 pm

Giftorcurse wrote:
Tekneek wrote:
"If God cannot prevent bad things from happening, why should I care about God?"


No idea. I guess that if he interfered with our lives, it would, in a way, violate the freedom that He has given us.


Are you talking about free will? That is a very archaic concept. The last time I thought about it as an actual possibility was when I didn't have a choice.


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Tekneek
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14 Feb 2010, 4:54 pm

Giftorcurse wrote:
Tekneek wrote:
"If God cannot prevent bad things from happening, why should I care about God?"


No idea. I guess that if he interfered with our lives, it would, in a way, violate the freedom that He has given us.


If I have a life without God's interference whether he exists or not, why would it matter to me whether God exists or not? I can be a good person without fear of going to Hell. If fear of going to Hell is the only reason to pray/worship/believe, why bother?



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14 Feb 2010, 6:08 pm

There is a reason for everything, even if we don't know why something happened, there is a reason for it.

It's funny that you mention Natalee, I, too, wonder why God allowed her to die, although it could be because he "called her home" so to speak. She and her family are in my prayers.


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Tekneek
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14 Feb 2010, 8:23 pm

LiberalJustice wrote:
There is a reason for everything, even if we don't know why something happened, there is a reason for it.

It's funny that you mention Natalee, I, too, wonder why God allowed her to die, although it could be because he "called her home" so to speak. She and her family are in my prayers.


A God who would call people home without any explanation to her family and loved ones is not very inspiring to me. If I had someone in your family killed, and would never talk about it, would you praise me for having a good reason and being mysterious about the whole thing?



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15 Feb 2010, 3:18 pm

To me, the concept of a god is man's way of explaining what we dont understand . . . well, the concept of gods in general. It wasnt until the Egyptians (and some other ancient cultures) that religion was used to control (IE: your "King" is closest to a/the god and if you displease him, you're going to regret it in the hereafter). The concept has ever been for the sake of control since then, more out of fear and keeping power so as to mold society as the leaders wished. As for bad stuff happening, if its naturally occurring (earthquakes, etc) then its chance and location (if not where you are then it will somewhere else because it has to happen). But, when it comes to people and society, its because of the people and what happens is a result of what they do or dont do. Humans want something to blame (since they dont apparently like to take responsibility for their individual actions) so may as direct animosity towards the supernatural (praise the divine for success, belittle the infernal for failures). Fear, however, seems to be the highest power of them all though since its easily applied to us when needed for controlling the masses.



PLA
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15 Feb 2010, 3:43 pm

PlatedDrake wrote:
(praise the divine for success, belittle the infernal for failures)

I remember reading of a Zulu culture in which tribes threatened to deny knowing their ancestor spirits if they didn't contribute enough.


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