Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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I don't think that is what she is saying cheri.

But it is true that you over-emphasize women's problems to, honestly, the point of hilarity. I mean, ALL gender discrimination of ALL kinds is 100% against women, is what you seem to think by your posts. Women must really be utterly helpless creatures -- I mean to a hilarious degree -- if they're THAT downtrodden! Geez, if you're to be believed, the rolly-polly I stepped on is having a better time than "women", as you collectively refer to all of them.

(Men have problems too. LOTS of problems. Just sayin'.)

Last edited by Ragtime on 05 Apr 2012, 9:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Instrumentality – if the thing is treated as a tool for one's own purposes;
Denial of autonomy – if the thing is treated as if lacking in agency or self-determination;
Inertness – if the thing is treated as if lacking in agency;
Ownership – if the thing is treated as if owned by another;
Fungibility – if the thing is treated as if interchangeable;
Violability – if the thing is treated as if permissible to damage or destroy;
denial of subjectivity – if the thing is treated as if there is no need to show concern for the 'object's' feelings and experiences.

Those are the criteria for objectification as laid out by Martha Nussbaum. In this case, men are objectified as men called up in the draft are in fact treated as interchangeable and permissible to damage or destroy. The further humorization of violence against men in sitcoms, in societies views on spousal abuse and quite a few other things. Furthermore, when it comes to sexual objectification, women are as guilty of this as men.

Now, if government has mandated equal rights and we have established that both genders and trans-gender people deal with social issues, what issues are left which women deal with Joker? I also wanted to chime in with Ragtime, that you seem to view women as a whole rather than individuals constantly, in your head there seems to be no difference between Angela Merkel or Hilary Clinton and a 14 year old trafficking victim.

Men do not deal with the biological problems women deal with and men often make fun of those problems.

And when have I ever posted such a thing?

I treat women as people not as a gender.

Biological issues not getting payed the same for doing a job the same job ever day men do ect lots of thing's think about what you just posted and answer your own question.

But the objectifiers are likewise male, so it's not a distinction based on sex, but on other hierarchies, among men.

The government hasn't "mandated" equal rights- the ERA is screamed down everytime someone breathes of it.
There's still a fight to get insurance coverage of birth control, for goodness's sake-
the political climate is such that a woman who testifies before Congress about her friend's ovarian cysts gets called a "slut and a prostitute".
That's apart from the general cultural atmosphere, and from-birth indoctrination of children into strict sex-based gender scripts.
A couple last year attempted to raise their child as an individual, without telling others of his/her sex, and the amount of rage-filled vitriol they received for it was frightening.

Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 05 Apr 2012, 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That happened with my mother when she gave birth to me.

I'm on my period right now!! :V I don't want to work on my period! But I will have to. I don' want to risk fainting because the pain is too much and the medicine I take has a diuretic. I don't know about other women but I would not want to have to work if 1 week out of the month I am gonna be in pain hell.. :C It's not fun. I don't want to be equal in that aspect because it's too much to handle.

That honestly sounds like you need to see a doctor. Most women don't have the luxury of saying "Wah, I'm menstruating", therefore women's presence in the workplace shouldn't be equal.

when any woman in my family is on their period they still go to work.

PS not saying you not working on your period is a bad thing.

Close enough, I mean, the people who build their on preconceptions of reality and who is to blame for their problems, issues and obstacles based on an ideology or using an ideology to support their issues can become potentially dangerous.

And you know that extremists and radicals do exist, so at which point we can trust anyone like that, given that it is more likely that on some issues there would be disagreement, the problem of cognitive biases and dissonance.

In the case of feminism, a more inclusive ideology instead, seems to give more stability, fairness and equality, as it has been pointed out previously.

Well yeah their are radical feminists but they are not very large as a group same thing can be said about the extreminsts too.

unlocking the thread. it's a heck of a long thread and i don't want to have to deal with removing any more posts. warning was given to the one recent transgressor.

please keep the thread on-topic. thank you.

EDIT: sorry, i must have unlocked it and locked it back up!! !! it's open now

Last edited by hyperlexian on 06 Apr 2012, 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

I was shocked when I read your original statement. So quickly asserting that ALL women are the same, when nothing could be further from the truth! There are women who are more logical than the men in their lives, and men who are more emotional than the women in their lives, and so on. Broad generalizations are ALWAYS offensive.

The average feminist isn't trying to be a man, she is trying to be recognized for who she is, whether that be smart, logical, weak, strong, sexy, plain, a great cook, or a great machinist, without someone saying, "you're a woman, therefore you must be X." It is the assumption that is stiffling, and the same is true when men are forced to grow up with "boys can't cry" stereotypes. If you are comfortable around men who make you feel protected, go for it, but don't assume that every woman should or does have the same desires or needs.

I grew up with a father who didn't want to send any his daughters to college, given that (his words) we'd all just get married, and no self respecting man would let his wife work. Well, I went to college anyway, and it is a good thing because I had to support myself until I was 36 and even now our family relies on the fact that I can earn good money any time there is a need for it (like when my AS husband stresses out and needs to quit his job). My older sister took my dad's word for it and has had to settle for doing less than she is capable of her whole life, and has never married. It is THAT sort of limiting role play that feminists fought against, and you are too young to have a clue what it was like before, the world where my brilliant aunt spent her life as a secretary to a prominent researcher, basically did all his thinking for him, and never got credit nor a decent wage. It has nothing to do with trying to be a man, and everything to do with being allowed to be who you are, and receiving credit for it. You are living the benefits, just as I am, and yet give nothing but disdain to those who cleared that path for you.

I don't fit in anyone's box, either, and I like it that way. I have a top notch intellect, don't have the patience for housework, and would have loved to have been Miss America. Go figure.

Please don't don't limit anyone with over generalizations that can never fit.

...

One more tidbit to ponder: ever choose to wear pants to school and not think twice about it?Thank feminism. When I started school, girls were required to wear dresses, they claimed girls thought better in dresses. Tell me, does your intellect change depending on what you are wearing? Nah, mine doesn't either. So much hogwash invented by men who wanted to believe they knew everything oh so much better simply by being male ...

I much prefer today's world where some men do the cooking, some women earn the money, yet most actually choose to do things the way they have been done for generations ... and wear jeans while doing it.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 05 Apr 2012, 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

you're giving an incorrect assessment of how women are. just because *you* are governed by emotions does not make it true for *other women*. you are extrapolating based on your own experiences (and perhaps what your religion has erroneously taught you). it is not a factual claim by any stretch of the imagination - you do not speak for other women.

i don't really understand what you mean by "become a man". i am fully and absolutely a woman, yet i am able to do the things that men do (if i feel like it). and * i * married a feminist. you see... it is possible to be male, Christian AND feminist.

My Mum would figuratively kill me if I called her that. I know this is off-topic, but I was always discouraged from seeing my mother as a friend. Other people don't seem to have parents who act like such authority figures as mine do.

Maybe that's why I don't want to be in a relationship where someone dominates me. I had enough of that growing up.