Your thoughts on Gay Marriage / Homosexuality?

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LKL

I am familiar with all of those studies and addressed them in my previous comments when I stated "Stating that they have gone down by a little bit, in some places, recently simply does not cut the mustard as a credible defense for sex education. ". Taking a small trend line of only one decade does not demonstrate the effectiveness of sex education.

What would happen if you took that trend from the introduction date of sex education in west in the 1950s. We already know, the rates of sex among minors and STD rates of infection would be shown to have exploded. Governments love to show short term statistics to claim the trend is in a positive direction. If you don't believe me, look at how the government reports on recent economic data.

It is also worth noting that when studies demonstrate the opposite, as many do, they tend not to be published by organisations such as the Nih. For instance this one referenced here (http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/health/ ... 309657.htm) and here (http://www.christian.org.uk/news/failed ... -increase/). Or this one (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... nancy.html). Or this one, there is also this position that argues quite well the abstinance only actually does work better, when the programs are well done (http://www.aolnews.com/health/article/s ... d/19341448) the study conducted this year showed that abstinence only work better than the standard sex ed classes, the study can be found here (http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/conten ... 2/152?home)

You stated

'When it is left soley to parents, it too often does not get done. There is a great deal of social interest in preventing teen pregnancy regardless of whether a teen's parents give a damn about teaching him or her proper sex ed. '

We used to have a method of doing this, it was called a moral standard, which when combined with societal pressure, provably kept teen pregnancy low.

You also stated

'You are now being disingenuous, because another poster has already demonstrated that this is false with the example of STD and teen pregnancy rates in Northern Europe.'

Here you once again engage in supporting the use of short term data to prove that a long term policy failure is a success. Considering the long term trend, simply stating that there should be more of the same is a logical fallacy.

As to the accusation that I have used a sum hoc, ergo propter hoc logical fallacy the only response I can give you are the facts. There are no studies that can directly link the two together, I'll admit that too much time has passed to adequately draw that conclusion.

However, any basic reading of the early history of sex education shows that it was introduced to break down the moral fiber of the people. For instance when public school sex education was first invented in 1919 during the Hungarian Soviet Revolution, Education Commissar George Lukacs specifically intended its introduction to debauch Christian morality.

Just to add my two cents:
My dad had attended high school in a backwoods hick town in the 1940s, where most people were embroiled in too much evangelical religion for their own good. He had told me that half the girls in his class never graduated, because they had ended up in "the family way." Illegal abortions were also big among the student body. And that was years before sex education of any kind.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I don't really think sex ed should be taught in school. It's just a waste of time and kids don't really learn much. It's mainly just kids giggling and going ewwww. All tho I gotta admit, seeing a video of a baby being born disgusted me enough to where I never want to see one. I'll hold her hand but I'm not looking, good god I'm not looking.

Condoms should be provided and the school should have reading material for parents and students to take as they please. Parents and students have to show a certain amount personal responsibility.

I am stating that the cause of teenage promiscuity is not properly delivered information.



I didn't advocate anything in my post. However, for the record, I do advocate sex education in our schools.



If something fails, learning from your mistakes and taking remedial action is the sensible thing to do.



There is no direct correlation between sex education and a rise in illegitimate births.



And you're still failing to show how sex education is the root cause of these issues.



Although it's a few years since I attended school, I don't remember this lesson in sex ed. Mostly we learned the scientific process of procreation, along with some fun facts about the risks involved with having sex. This approach seems to have worked quite well, as we have a very low number of pregnant minors in my hometown.

The rise in domestic violence, teenage pregnancy and illegitimate births is a product of modern culture, not of the increase in available knowledge, taught in a responsible and mature manner. The responsibility for teaching right and wrong to a child falls on the shoulders of the parent(s), not the state.

I remember that video, and I didn't look either.

Parents do need to shoulder the responsibility, but the problem is, many simply don't. Either they're too uncomfortable, too busy, or too against the idea of their child engaging in such activity that they refuse to even discuss it. I frequently hear these stories from other parents. I can't imagine not educating my kids on the matter, but from what I've seen, I'm in the minority.

Maybe there's another way we should be going about it. I often laugh with my husband that any kid thinking they want a baby should come to our house sometime. I think they'd change their mind pretty quick . We should still be teaching basic biology and disease transmission, but I think we should be moving beyond the lame egg experiment at this point.

Ok, I must interject. Is this the "NAMBLA" you keep talking about?

North American Man/Boy Love Association

You do realize that this is a joke, right?

NAMBLA is a real group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambla

And I wouldn't touch their website with my worst enemy's computer. Yuck.

It's a matter of how sex is taught, not that it is taught.

Sex here is way too much about shame and hiding sex. Over there, it's more open and accepted. It's no wonder our sex education sucks: most of society is too embarrassed to actually talk about sex so the ret*ds just default to "just don't do it" aka "abstinence".

I have a sure way of making underage pregnancy fall massively!

Decrease the age of consent

We're actually on the high end here with it being 17/18 on average. Most of Europe is actually around 15 with a +/-1 variable for their age of consent. The aforementioned Netherlands' age of consent is 16.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe

Spain's age of consent is 13. Kinda wonder if maybe we're the weird ones here.

EXACTLY! For once we agree on something!

I've actually been saying that whenever this subject comes up, the US is far above the majority of the world in most states, and even in the UK we have an age which is a year above most of Europe.

Oh come on... no comment on this point?

This is because the US still considers teenagers to be children. They aren't. They are right in the middle of adulthood and childhood, and that's generally when mammals start procreating.

Holy crap! I stand corrected.

Please excuse me while I go vomit.

for a long time, poe's law prevented me from making a firm decision on whether nambla was real or satire. they've done enough to support child molesters in court that we can reasonably say that the organization isn't funny.

that would require overtly admitting a prejudice against homosexuals. anti-homosexual bigots try really hard not to do that, sometimes. it's almost as if they realize that it makes them look like anti-homosexual bigots.