17 Dec 2016, 5:17 am
17 Dec 2016, 5:23 am
17 Dec 2016, 5:31 am
17 Dec 2016, 5:34 am
techstepgenr8tion
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Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
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Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi
17 Dec 2016, 7:18 am
17 Dec 2016, 9:08 am
Priceless.
Right conclusion (that the OP loves to make a spectacle of himself -which he has been doing on a regular basis long before he started this thread), but for the wrong reason.
The thread was created by ONE original poster. Not by a group. So there is no reason for a plural (s) at the end.
And the original poster is NOT an "antitheist".
He is (like his handle says) a "Gnostic" (I assume that means he is a follower, and a reviver, of the ancient Gnostic sidebranch of early Christianity that mostly died out in Roman times).
So he is very definitely a "theist" himself.
One of the problems is that he doesnt lay his cards on the table and actually state what he believes, and this causes confusion, as well as being unfair in a debate.
So right now I will step in to straighten this mess out by explaining where I THINK the OP is coming from.
A) He is not an "antitheist", nor an "atheist".
B) Therefore he is not being a missionary for atheism, but being a missionary for Gnostic Christianity.
C) One of the ways that Gnostic Christianity ( the OP, or anyone, is free to correct me) deviates from orthodox Christianity is in their belief in a being called a "demiurge" ( a half god).
D) Jews, mainstream Christians, and Muslims, go along with the god as depicted in the Old Testament who is both the ruler and the creator of the Universe. God designed the whole thing, and then built it himself.
E) But in the Gnostic view God was just the archetect. He then hired a demiurge to hang the dry wall, and do the actual building. And the Demiurge turned out to be an incompetent tradesmen who fouled it all up.
F) The God that Jews, Christians, and Muslims, worship is this incompetent tradesmen guy, and not the real god.
G)So if you worship that guy you an idolator (in the OP's view). So thats what he is on about. He is not saying stop worshipping. He is saying "stop worshipping this false high profile God, and start worshipping the real low profile other guy real God".
Now I could be flawed in my analysis of either what the ancient gnostics beleived, and or in what Gnostic Bishop believes now. So he is free to correct me (but he cant BLAME me for getting it wrong because he is the one not being straightforward).
So now that both opposing sides finally KNOW what it is that they are OPPOSED ABOUT you all can carry on with the vigorous debate.
you're welcome.
techstepgenr8tion
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Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,691
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi
17 Dec 2016, 10:29 am
17 Dec 2016, 2:40 pm
Priceless.
Right conclusion (that the OP loves to make a spectacle of himself -which he has been doing on a regular basis long before he started this thread), but for the wrong reason.
The thread was created by ONE original poster. Not by a group. So there is no reason for a plural (s) at the end.
And the original poster is NOT an "antitheist".
He is (like his handle says) a "Gnostic" (I assume that means he is a follower, and a reviver, of the ancient Gnostic sidebranch of early Christianity that mostly died out in Roman times).
So he is very definitely a "theist" himself.
One of the problems is that he doesnt lay his cards on the table and actually state what he believes, and this causes confusion, as well as being unfair in a debate.
So right now I will step in to straighten this mess out by explaining where I THINK the OP is coming from.
A) He is not an "antitheist", nor an "atheist".
B) Therefore he is not being a missionary for atheism, but being a missionary for Gnostic Christianity.
C) One of the ways that Gnostic Christianity ( the OP, or anyone, is free to correct me) deviates from orthodox Christianity is in their belief in a being called a "demiurge" ( a half god).
D) Jews, mainstream Christians, and Muslims, go along with the god as depicted in the Old Testament who is both the ruler and the creator of the Universe. God designed the whole thing, and then built it himself.
E) But in the Gnostic view God was just the archetect. He then hired a demiurge to hang the dry wall, and do the actual building. And the Demiurge turned out to be an incompetent tradesmen who fouled it all up.
F) The God that Jews, Christians, and Muslims, worship is this incompetent tradesmen guy, and not the real god.
G)So if you worship that guy you an idolator (in the OP's view). So thats what he is on about. He is not saying stop worshipping. He is saying "stop worshipping this false high profile God, and start worshipping the real low profile other guy real God".
Now I could be flawed in my analysis of either what the ancient gnostics beleived, and or in what Gnostic Bishop believes now. So he is free to correct me (but he cant BLAME me for getting it wrong because he is the one not being straightforward).
So now that both opposing sides finally KNOW what it is that they are OPPOSED ABOUT you all can carry on with the vigorous debate.
you're welcome.
17 Dec 2016, 3:06 pm
17 Dec 2016, 3:51 pm
17 Dec 2016, 4:35 pm
Priceless.
Right conclusion (that the OP loves to make a spectacle of himself -which he has been doing on a regular basis long before he started this thread), but for the wrong reason.
What wrong reason is that?
True but as far as I know, all Gnostics see Yahweh as a vie demiurge of the fictitious kind of course.
Theist is described in part as --- "the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism )."
That description describes a supernatural belief and Gnostic Christianity is more like the Eastern wisdom seeking religions like Buddhism as we do not believe in the supernatural. In that sense, I am anti-theist.
True to your first two statements but not the last two.
I see Christianity as a side branch to Chrestianity as I see us as the first Chrestian religion which consisted of Jews and gentiles. I see Christianity as plagiarizing or scriptures and claiming them as their own. The evidence is slim this far up the time line but telling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... At-PAkgqls
No. Gnostic Christians are esoteric ecumenists and naturalists while theist believe in a supernatural creator type God.
This saying of ours shows this.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
I sometimes add the following for debate as I think it irrefutable even though most think it satire.
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGEyBe ... r_embedded
I am always please to advise others of my belief and answer all questions on those beliefs. In this O.P. it was not required as Yahweh was the topic at hand. You do not need to be a Gnostic Christian o anything else but a free thinker to reach the conclusion I posit.
A) He is not an "antitheist", nor an "atheist".
Not quite. See above.
When appropriate but as stated, in this O.P. it was not necessary. I have no secrets as my non de plume shows.
In our myths, yes. Those myths were never intended to be read literally though and were invented to put against the Christian myth for purposes of debate and discuss. This was before Christianity and Islam became idol worshiping literal reading cults and began killing for their imaginary Gods.
http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D
Agreed although they all give their versions of God different attributes.
As depicted by Christianity, yes.
In reality as shown above, we see nothing but heaven here.
Correct but the Jews are closer to he Gnostic way of thinking than most think.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
True to your first but false to your last.
We do not suggest the worship of any God or ideology, not even our own as that leads to idol worship and stagnation of seeking better ideas.
I am always straight forward and am always pleased to answer question on Gnostic Christianity.
Ours is a two pronged ideology where we are duty bound to both show the immorality of Christian and Muslim ideologies and also show our better ideology. The main differences being that Christianity and Islam are divisive and promote homophobia and misogyny while the Gnostic Christian ideology is a Universalist creed without a hell and thus cannot be homophobic or misogynous as we have tied righteousness to full equality under the law for all.
you're welcome.
[/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnBtCKRUUV8
Thanks for helping me clear anything that was not understood.
Regards
DL
17 Dec 2016, 4:36 pm
What an interesting and frustrating debate.
I guess we all have our own beliefs.
I am agnostic, although, I have to admit, if i had to choose which side I am on.
I would have to say the side of those who tell the truth, who are fair and who treat each other kindly.
Regardless of whether there is a God or not. I just feel that this is right, and have an extremely strong sense of justice.
As to whether God exists, I can not say. As to whether God kills people, I also can not say, but i wouldn't blame him/her/it if he/her/it did.
Going back to the God existing thing, apart from the age old chicken and egg thing.
You may also like to apply simple logic to it. The way i look at it is that their is no way truly knowing as to whether God does or does not exist.
However, God existing is a possible probability. Therefore, taking into consideration that God existing being a possibility, i feel it is logical to live our lives as if God does exist, in case he/she/it does.
Otherwise, there is a possibility that if we do not, we will displease God and sustain the punishment that God chooses (or the consequences that occur due to how ever God has designed the universe to work).
If you live a Good life and God does not exist, what have you lost?
Of course, there is the other argument that if you do live like this, then you will miss the out on the opportunities that life gives to those who do not follow the Godly path but follow the selfish path.
There is another argument, such as that of the Buddhists or the imperialists, who will argue that the happiness that is derived from material gain is only transitory and again is relative to your state of mind.
You may be materially rich but still experience much suffering.
So there is an argument that if you can let go of the material world, as in buddhists, Taoists and arguably other religious traditions, then you can find permanent happiness that is not dependant on the material world.
Transcend the material world so to speak and generate your own peace.
Personally, I am naturally drawn to that which many view as Good, and like the idea of God existing.
I also enjoy the company of people who are truly spiritual and good natured, who are not always the people who you think such as those who are extremely religious.
I like people being kind, patient, good humoured, forgiving, child like and playful with me. And when i meet such rare people i have a great time. but as i say, such qualities in the same person are rare.
I do not like nasty, sadistic, antagonistic, big mouthed bullies or bigots.
Although you can get both types of people in all walks of life, philosophies and religions, i would say that the good people whom i like sometimes can be found among those who have a faith such as christianity.
Such good natured people are rare among satanists.
i know which type i prefer to be around.
Being around satanists is a head f**k, extremely stressful and very upsetting generally.
If the answer to the question as to whether god does exist or does not exist is irrelevant.
Then the winner of life is he who has enjoyed the most happiness in his life.
Who that is I can not say. May be billionaires, may be not. and his wealth is worth nothing.
May be the buddhist monk who has transcended the material world. May be not and his hardship is for nothing.
May be the beautiful woman pop star who spends her entire life getting screwed and pampered by many mates. Maybe not and she endures a great deal of abuse and suffering from losing her looks and fame.
Maybe the pios christian who gets off by helping others, may be not if those who he helps are nasty to him.
May be the mad man in the asylum who has through his madness enjoys the most happiness in his delusions. May be not though as even his delusions may not stay with him forever.
Who am i to say, although i know what brings me happiness. I hope you all find that brings you permanent or at the least optimum amounts of happiness as long as it is not at anyone else's expense.
17 Dec 2016, 4:46 pm
17 Dec 2016, 5:13 pm
17 Dec 2016, 5:24 pm
17 Dec 2016, 6:10 pm
