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Donald Trump is not a Bigot or Racist..

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Campin_Cat
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07 Jan 2017, 9:50 pm

MDD123 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.

I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.

That's not true, someone can choose whether or not to talk about it, but not how much something bothers them.

Why, not?




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RetroGamer87
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07 Jan 2017, 9:53 pm

MDD123 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.
I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.
That's not true, someone can choose whether or not to talk about it, but not how much something bothers them.
I can choose whether or not something offends me. I can choose to be offended or not be offended.


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07 Jan 2017, 9:58 pm

wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.
I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.
True. Equating rape and racist jokes is disrespectful to rape victims.


I am a rape survivor--not all rape is overtly painful, many women freeze when it happens and the guy has no idea if she is in pain or not. Don't tell me what is disrespectful to me. Interesting that many people who haven't experienced rape are telling me what rape is all about like they know better than me who has experienced it, but that's not disrespectful. :roll:

Also, if my boss is sexist in the workplace I don't have a choice not to hear it and not be "offended" by it. It's not about offense, it's about making the workplace toxic. Please stop telling me what I can and cannot "choose" to be effected by--I cannot choose to not be effected negatively by sexism as a woman any more than I could choose not to be raped.
Trauma and fear can both count as pain. What I say on this is from what others have said.

Besides almost everyone in society is taught that rape is horrible for the individual. The individual who does it therefore most likely knows and doesn't care.


Actually, most guys who rape don't think of themselves as rapists by avoiding using that word, and by avoiding the word they avoid feeling bad because they can convince themselves that what they did wasn't rape. Most men only consider a stranger jumping out of the bushes with a knife is rape, they don't see date-rape as hurtful or traumatic because they have done it and they are not bad people so it can't be all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2015/01/15/the_ugl ... l_it_rape/


Like that sicko a while back who raped a girl, but got a reduced sentence because well he was a good swimmer on the swim team. I bet he doesn't think he's a rapist, I believe his dad made a statement that basically the only reason he was being punished was because people were mad he 'got some'...to me that implies he grew up in a household where this kind of behavior was not discouraged. But yeah someone like that needs a heavy sentence not a slap on the wrist, all that did was likely validate his delusions that he did nothing wrong.


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Campin_Cat
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07 Jan 2017, 9:59 pm

wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Interesting that you think you're an expert on the effects of racism when you're not a member of an ethnic minority.

I can speak about bigotry like sexism and racism and what it is like to experience because I am a member of a class that is effected by bigotry.

LOL Nice dodge----NOT!!





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07 Jan 2017, 10:04 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.

I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.

That's not true, someone can choose whether or not to talk about it, but not how much something bothers them.

Why, not?


Have you never heard a comment or have someone say something to you that causes an unpleasant feeling sort of in your chest and makes you feel bad, like it stings? I can say if I am offended/ticked off I certainly feel it inside me doesn't mean I'd have to say anything or show it per say but the feeling is there. I can certainly proceed to do things to make myself feel better and avoid fixating on it to move on....but yeah I don't see how someone could control how much something initially bothers them.


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07 Jan 2017, 10:08 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.
I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.
That's not true, someone can choose whether or not to talk about it, but not how much something bothers them.
I can choose whether or not something offends me. I can choose to be offended or not be offended.


You sure you don't mean you can choose whether or not to show your offense? I just find it a little hard to believe most people could completely control their initial feelings about something.


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07 Jan 2017, 10:13 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.
I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.
True. Equating rape and racist jokes is disrespectful to rape victims.
I am a rape survivor--not all rape is overtly painful, many women freeze when it happens and the guy has no idea if she is in pain or not. Don't tell me what is disrespectful to me. Interesting that many people who haven't experienced rape are telling me what rape is all about like they know better than me who has experienced it, but that's not disrespectful. :roll:
Well how was I supposed to know that?

Interesting that you think you're an expert on the effects of racism when you're not a member of an ethnic minority.
I can speak about bigotry like sexism and racism and what it is like to experience because I am a member of a class that is effected by bigotry.
Which class would that be?

I'm a woman, and women experience sexism which is a form of bigotry. And yes men experience sexism too, but not to the extent or with the same power differential as women and men haven't had to fight for their rights like women have and still do (women's right to abortion for example is being challenged by many state governments in America right now, which is institutionalised bigotry.) Men have never been oppressed by women on a societal level, but women have been oppressed by men and are still fighting that bigotry to this day in many parts of the world.


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wilburforce
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07 Jan 2017, 10:16 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.
I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.
True. Equating rape and racist jokes is disrespectful to rape victims.


I am a rape survivor--not all rape is overtly painful, many women freeze when it happens and the guy has no idea if she is in pain or not. Don't tell me what is disrespectful to me. Interesting that many people who haven't experienced rape are telling me what rape is all about like they know better than me who has experienced it, but that's not disrespectful. :roll:

Also, if my boss is sexist in the workplace I don't have a choice not to hear it and not be "offended" by it. It's not about offense, it's about making the workplace toxic. Please stop telling me what I can and cannot "choose" to be effected by--I cannot choose to not be effected negatively by sexism as a woman any more than I could choose not to be raped.
Trauma and fear can both count as pain. What I say on this is from what others have said.

Besides almost everyone in society is taught that rape is horrible for the individual. The individual who does it therefore most likely knows and doesn't care.


Actually, most guys who rape don't think of themselves as rapists by avoiding using that word, and by avoiding the word they avoid feeling bad because they can convince themselves that what they did wasn't rape. Most men only consider a stranger jumping out of the bushes with a knife is rape, they don't see date-rape as hurtful or traumatic because they have done it and they are not bad people so it can't be all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2015/01/15/the_ugl ... l_it_rape/
Look and you know that is considered rape as well by most standards. Before you do an action like that you are taught it is wrong by everyone in society and what a terrible crime it is. It takes not carrying to want to carry it out.

Please stop comparing it to racism just don't. A fairly normal person can make a racist joke because they think it is funny and will be received as such. No one can think committing that crime is okay without being tremendously screwed up. The two people are so far apart.


Many men are taught that forcing a woman to have sex with you if you don't have a knife or gun is not rape (as the study in the article I linked shows), so obviously they don't think it's all that wrong or it wouldn't happen on the scale it does. Lots of guys commit rape and think they are not screwed up. I doubt the guy who raped me thinks of himself as a rapist or a bad guy or a criminal, even though he is all of those things. Lots of people think they're not racist yet they behave in racist ways.


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Campin_Cat
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07 Jan 2017, 10:21 pm

wilburforce wrote:
Actually, most guys who rape don't think of themselves as rapists by avoiding using that word, and by avoiding the word they avoid feeling bad because they can convince themselves that what they did wasn't rape. Most men only consider a stranger jumping out of the bushes with a knife is rape, they don't see date-rape as hurtful or traumatic because they have done it and they are not bad people so it can't be all that bad.

Ah, well now we're talking about two only-partially-similar things, IMO----date-rape and vicious rape ("stranger jumping out of the bushes with a knife"). NOT that a victim is any less traumatized----but, IMO, there ARE rapists who KNOW they're rapists ("think of themselves as rapists" / do NOT avoid using "the word"), because they are quite aware of their disease, and ask for help.




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07 Jan 2017, 10:24 pm

wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.
I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.
True. Equating rape and racist jokes is disrespectful to rape victims.


I am a rape survivor--not all rape is overtly painful, many women freeze when it happens and the guy has no idea if she is in pain or not. Don't tell me what is disrespectful to me. Interesting that many people who haven't experienced rape are telling me what rape is all about like they know better than me who has experienced it, but that's not disrespectful. :roll:

Also, if my boss is sexist in the workplace I don't have a choice not to hear it and not be "offended" by it. It's not about offense, it's about making the workplace toxic. Please stop telling me what I can and cannot "choose" to be effected by--I cannot choose to not be effected negatively by sexism as a woman any more than I could choose not to be raped.
Trauma and fear can both count as pain. What I say on this is from what others have said.

Besides almost everyone in society is taught that rape is horrible for the individual. The individual who does it therefore most likely knows and doesn't care.


Actually, most guys who rape don't think of themselves as rapists by avoiding using that word, and by avoiding the word they avoid feeling bad because they can convince themselves that what they did wasn't rape. Most men only consider a stranger jumping out of the bushes with a knife is rape, they don't see date-rape as hurtful or traumatic because they have done it and they are not bad people so it can't be all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2015/01/15/the_ugl ... l_it_rape/
Look and you know that is considered rape as well by most standards. Before you do an action like that you are taught it is wrong by everyone in society and what a terrible crime it is. It takes not carrying to want to carry it out.

Please stop comparing it to racism just don't. A fairly normal person can make a racist joke because they think it is funny and will be received as such. No one can think committing that crime is okay without being tremendously screwed up. The two people are so far apart.


Many men are taught that forcing a woman to have sex with you if you don't have a knife or gun is not rape (as the study in the article I linked shows), so obviously they don't think it's all that wrong or it wouldn't happen on the scale it does. Lots of guys commit rape and think they are not screwed up. I doubt the guy who raped me thinks of himself as a rapist or a bad guy or a criminal, even though he is all of those things. Lots of people think they're not racist yet they behave in racist ways.
A key part of being screwed up is not knowing that it is the case. Of course their are going to be people who will commit the crime and think it is fine though.

Telling a racist joke whilst not good for the person is not abusive. Rape is.



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07 Jan 2017, 10:26 pm

wilburforce wrote:

Many men are taught that forcing a woman to have sex with you if you don't have a knife or gun is not rape (as the study in the article I linked shows), so obviously they don't think it's all that wrong or it wouldn't happen on the scale it does. Lots of guys commit rape and think they are not screwed up. I doubt the guy who raped me thinks of himself as a rapist or a bad guy or a criminal, even though he is all of those things. Lots of people think they're not racist yet they behave in racist ways.


I believe the girl was passed out drunk or close to passed out, basically she was in no state to consent. That really needs to be ingrained that if someone is incapacitated they cannot consent to people doing anything to their body, seems somehow this message gets missed by some.


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07 Jan 2017, 10:27 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
All crimes are equal!

LOLOL Alright, now.....

I'm gonna have to stop laughing at your jokes, cuz it seems to be encouraging you----and, now you're dancing on the precipice of irreverence.






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07 Jan 2017, 10:30 pm

wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
When a woman is being raped it is obvious to the perpetrator that she is in pain they just don't care. When someone tells a racist joke they might think their being funny and not understand the implications of their actions.
I agree with this----I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.
True. Equating rape and racist jokes is disrespectful to rape victims.
I am a rape survivor--not all rape is overtly painful, many women freeze when it happens and the guy has no idea if she is in pain or not. Don't tell me what is disrespectful to me. Interesting that many people who haven't experienced rape are telling me what rape is all about like they know better than me who has experienced it, but that's not disrespectful. :roll:
Well how was I supposed to know that?

Interesting that you think you're an expert on the effects of racism when you're not a member of an ethnic minority.
I can speak about bigotry like sexism and racism and what it is like to experience because I am a member of a class that is effected by bigotry.
Which class would that be?
I'm a woman, and women experience sexism which is a form of bigotry. And yes men experience sexism too, but not to the extent or with the same power differential as women and men haven't had to fight for their rights like women have and still do (women's right to abortion for example is being challenged by many state governments in America right now, which is institutionalised bigotry.) Men have never been oppressed by women on a societal level, but women have been oppressed by men and are still fighting that bigotry to this day in many parts of the world.
How would you know to what extent men have been oppressed? You've never experienced being a man.

Interesting that someone who's never been a man is telling me how much oppression men experience.


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07 Jan 2017, 10:35 pm

RetroGamer back down now this will not end well trust me I know. Wilburforce has no mercy.



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07 Jan 2017, 10:40 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
I don't think these two equate, because, also, a person who is offended by a racist comment can choose NOT to be offended / ticked-off / whatever.

That's not true, someone can choose whether or not to talk about it, but not how much something bothers them.

Why, not?

Have you never heard a comment or have someone say something to you that causes an unpleasant feeling sort of in your chest and makes you feel bad, like it stings? I can say if I am offended/ticked off I certainly feel it inside me doesn't mean I'd have to say anything or show it per say but the feeling is there. I can certainly proceed to do things to make myself feel better and avoid fixating on it to move on....but yeah I don't see how someone could control how much something initially bothers them.

Oh, SURE, I'm an Aspie----of COURSE I've heard a comment "that causes an unpleasant feeling"; but, the I think the key word, here, is initially; whereas "offended" seems to suggest "long-term" (to ME, anyway).



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07 Jan 2017, 10:45 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
RetroGamer back down now this will not end well trust me I know. Wilburforce has no mercy.
Nonsense. She's intelligent. She can be reasoned with.


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