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JohnPowell
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03 Feb 2017, 6:38 pm

Adamantium wrote:
^It wasn't meant as a serious counterargument-as my previous posts hopefully made clear, I agree with you.

I was just seizing on the opportunity to introduce that bit from Woody Allen.


Not surprising. Hollywood is where these brainwashed thugs are mostly indoctrinated.


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03 Feb 2017, 6:41 pm

Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.


The word "Nazi" gets thrown around too easily now. Just because someone is a white nationalist it doesn't mean they want to start putting people in concentration camps.


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03 Feb 2017, 6:44 pm

Drake wrote:
You can't spread a message of peace, love, tolerance, etc. Or a message that conveys why Nazis or anyone else are wrong or a message of why your way is the right way with your fist.


These left wing thugs are the most intolerant of all now days.


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03 Feb 2017, 6:47 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?

What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.


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03 Feb 2017, 6:50 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:
A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


Police brutality is never justified. Such as the police man that was videoed shooting that man in that back after tasering him. The police man was rightly prosecuted and is now in prison.

What people have asked is whether all the example cited though activism were examples of brutality and also whether the perception of proportionality is really the reality. In the current climate it is not clear that people really want to find out. The sides have pre-judged.

Peelian principles hold the key to this, this could be made conditional.

De-escalation training does need to happen. This applies just as much when dealing with innocent members of the public as it does with career criminals. of course the police like anyone are entitled to defend themselves, but given an opportunity to de-escalate they should take it because it is common sense.



Last edited by 0_equals_true on 03 Feb 2017, 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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03 Feb 2017, 7:21 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.


The word "Nazi" gets thrown around too easily now. Just because someone is a white nationalist it doesn't mean they want to start putting people in concentration camps.


No, it means they want to deport all non-white people.
Are you aware that you sound like you're defending white nationalists?


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03 Feb 2017, 7:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.


The word "Nazi" gets thrown around too easily now. Just because someone is a white nationalist it doesn't mean they want to start putting people in concentration camps.


No, it means they want to deport all non-white people.
Are you aware that you sound like you're defending white nationalists?


You just defended blowing up innocent people on the other thread, so you probably ought to think before you type. So some people have the view that they want to deport all white people, yet your government and you have been supporting racial colonies in Palestine for 50 years. What's worse?
I'm defending everyone's right not to be attacked for their views. And duh, white people are allowed to be nationalists.


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03 Feb 2017, 7:47 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.


The word "Nazi" gets thrown around too easily now. Just because someone is a white nationalist it doesn't mean they want to start putting people in concentration camps.


No, it means they want to deport all non-white people.
Are you aware that you sound like you're defending white nationalists?


You just defended blowing up innocent people on the other thread, so you probably ought to think before you type. So some people have the view that they want to deport all white people, yet your government and you have been supporting racial colonies in Palestine for 50 years. What's worse?
I'm defending everyone's right not to be attacked for their views. And duh, white people are allowed to be nationalists.


I defend bombing people who want to murder us - - not exactly innocent lambs.
And who seriously wants to deport white people? Two or three insanos? There are a lot more white nationalists who want to rid America of brown and black people.
I'm not going to get derailed with your Anti-Israeli notions.
And yes, people have the right to be something as deplorable as a white nationalist, but that doesn't mean the rest of us who know America's destiny lies with being a pluralistic society have to accept your Alti Right White Nationalist ideology.


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03 Feb 2017, 10:04 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


Their is context to each of those things.

The Neo-Nazi was not assaulting anyone. The shooting in Ferguson was terrible but the policeman may have done it out of fear not hate, the victim had after all done a robbery.

if a Neo Nazi is a narcissist who is incapable of changing their views. Are they still totally responsible for how they think?

If so why should the person deserve to be punched when its not their fault they retain their beliefs?


Yes, Neo-Nazis are absolutely responsible for how they think. We know that they can change because some have rid themselves of their insane racist ideas. And to say that Neo-Nazis aren't responsible for how they think is giving them license to commit crimes against minorities.
Some people are just mentally incapable of seeing the other side it is just who they are. if A narcissist can't change their perspective but how is that their fault, they have a condition that makes it impossible.

And no I do not think that Neo-Nazis have a license to commit crimes. I think that if someone is going to commit a crime etc they will have to be arrested and thrown in jail because the action they will do is wrong.

But no I don't believe anyone per-se "deserves" a punishment as often thinking differently is beyond them.

Their is no evil in people just in actions. And if someone is going to do a bad action they will have to be stopped.


Oh, there are plenty people with evil in them around.

But is it their fault they lack empathy and can't see the other side or is it how their brains are wired?

To be honest I don't believe that anyone deserves any kind of punishment. The only justifiable reason for punishment is to disincentive people from doing the same behaviour again and for self-growth. Other than that it should never be done.



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03 Feb 2017, 10:45 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?

What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.

Research the black Panthers before speaking about them. The FBI purposely destroyed them and smeared their name after killing their key leaders. The Black Panthers provided a lot of very important services to the black community. Don't speak of what you don't understand.

Calling women derogatory names is also not on the same level as supporting ethnic cleansing. It's misogynistic but not murderous. Being a criminal is not justifiable for police to shoot you. They are taught to non violently de-escalate.


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03 Feb 2017, 10:47 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?

What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.

Research the black Panthers before speaking about them. The FBI purposely destroyed them and smeared their name after killing their key leaders. The Black Panthers provided a lot of very important services to the black community. Don't speak of what you don't understand.

Calling women derogatory names is also not on the same level as supporting ethnic cleansing. It's misogynistic but not murderous. Being a criminal is not justifiable for police to shoot you. They are taught to non violently de-escalate.

Punching someone doesn't do anything good.

If you take that out of the equation what was it doing but needlessly inflicting pain?



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04 Feb 2017, 2:25 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


Their is context to each of those things.

The Neo-Nazi was not assaulting anyone. The shooting in Ferguson was terrible but the policeman may have done it out of fear not hate, the victim had after all done a robbery.

if a Neo Nazi is a narcissist who is incapable of changing their views. Are they still totally responsible for how they think?

If so why should the person deserve to be punched when its not their fault they retain their beliefs?


Yes, Neo-Nazis are absolutely responsible for how they think. We know that they can change because some have rid themselves of their insane racist ideas. And to say that Neo-Nazis aren't responsible for how they think is giving them license to commit crimes against minorities.
Some people are just mentally incapable of seeing the other side it is just who they are. if A narcissist can't change their perspective but how is that their fault, they have a condition that makes it impossible.

And no I do not think that Neo-Nazis have a license to commit crimes. I think that if someone is going to commit a crime etc they will have to be arrested and thrown in jail because the action they will do is wrong.

But no I don't believe anyone per-se "deserves" a punishment as often thinking differently is beyond them.

Their is no evil in people just in actions. And if someone is going to do a bad action they will have to be stopped.


Oh, there are plenty people with evil in them around.

But is it their fault they lack empathy and can't see the other side or is it how their brains are wired?

To be honest I don't believe that anyone deserves any kind of punishment. The only justifiable reason for punishment is to disincentive people from doing the same behaviour again and for self-growth. Other than that it should never be done.


Wait a minute... Are you saying people whose brains might be wired differently shouldn't be punished for their crimes? I'm autistic, so my brain is wired differently, but if I commit a crime, I should be punished.


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04 Feb 2017, 2:28 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


Their is context to each of those things.

The Neo-Nazi was not assaulting anyone. The shooting in Ferguson was terrible but the policeman may have done it out of fear not hate, the victim had after all done a robbery.

if a Neo Nazi is a narcissist who is incapable of changing their views. Are they still totally responsible for how they think?

If so why should the person deserve to be punched when its not their fault they retain their beliefs?


Yes, Neo-Nazis are absolutely responsible for how they think. We know that they can change because some have rid themselves of their insane racist ideas. And to say that Neo-Nazis aren't responsible for how they think is giving them license to commit crimes against minorities.
Some people are just mentally incapable of seeing the other side it is just who they are. if A narcissist can't change their perspective but how is that their fault, they have a condition that makes it impossible.

And no I do not think that Neo-Nazis have a license to commit crimes. I think that if someone is going to commit a crime etc they will have to be arrested and thrown in jail because the action they will do is wrong.

But no I don't believe anyone per-se "deserves" a punishment as often thinking differently is beyond them.

Their is no evil in people just in actions. And if someone is going to do a bad action they will have to be stopped.


Oh, there are plenty people with evil in them around.

But is it their fault they lack empathy and can't see the other side or is it how their brains are wired?

To be honest I don't believe that anyone deserves any kind of punishment. The only justifiable reason for punishment is to disincentive people from doing the same behaviour again and for self-growth. Other than that it should never be done.


Wait a minute... Are you saying people whose brains might be wired differently shouldn't be punished for their crimes? I'm autistic, so my brain is wired differently, but if I commit a crime, I should be punished.


Their is no purpose for punishment if it does nothing that's why I am against punching Richard Spencer all it does is inflicts pain. Obviously I should add people should be sent to prison for their crimes to prevent it from happening again.



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04 Feb 2017, 2:29 am

Their is no evil people, just evil actions and the things we have to do to prevent them.

I want people to go to prison on a pragmatic standpoint that they might be a menace.



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04 Feb 2017, 2:30 am

lidsmichelle wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?

What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.

Research the black Panthers before speaking about them. The FBI purposely destroyed them and smeared their name after killing their key leaders. The Black Panthers provided a lot of very important services to the black community. Don't speak of what you don't understand.

Calling women derogatory names is also not on the same level as supporting ethnic cleansing. It's misogynistic but not murderous. Being a criminal is not justifiable for police to shoot you. They are taught to non violently de-escalate.


Says something about the Alt Right, that they defend the killing of an unarmed black man just because he might have called women names, or had supported radical (or not so radical) black groups. But getting fed up with a Nazi a$$hole, and throwing a punch, oh that's so terrible! :roll:


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04 Feb 2017, 3:04 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm black so I'm glad he got punched. Nazis expect to be able to walk around proudly while wanting to exterminate an entire race that their ancestors brought over against their will. Add to that their supremacy is genetically unfounded as most Nazis have mixed lineage just like everyone else. Expecting us to be happy about being shot down in the streets while condemning all violence is asinine. This is a result of the surmounting turmoil of American racism and Xenophobia that everyone but minorities and their loved ones are afraid or unwilling to address. History repeats itself, if everyone wants to candy coat Nazis instead of tell them they don't belong we are going to have another Civil War.

A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.

Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.


Their is context to each of those things.

The Neo-Nazi was not assaulting anyone. The shooting in Ferguson was terrible but the policeman may have done it out of fear not hate, the victim had after all done a robbery.

if a Neo Nazi is a narcissist who is incapable of changing their views. Are they still totally responsible for how they think?

If so why should the person deserve to be punched when its not their fault they retain their beliefs?


Yes, Neo-Nazis are absolutely responsible for how they think. We know that they can change because some have rid themselves of their insane racist ideas. And to say that Neo-Nazis aren't responsible for how they think is giving them license to commit crimes against minorities.
Some people are just mentally incapable of seeing the other side it is just who they are. if A narcissist can't change their perspective but how is that their fault, they have a condition that makes it impossible.

And no I do not think that Neo-Nazis have a license to commit crimes. I think that if someone is going to commit a crime etc they will have to be arrested and thrown in jail because the action they will do is wrong.

But no I don't believe anyone per-se "deserves" a punishment as often thinking differently is beyond them.

Their is no evil in people just in actions. And if someone is going to do a bad action they will have to be stopped.


Oh, there are plenty people with evil in them around.

But is it their fault they lack empathy and can't see the other side or is it how their brains are wired?

To be honest I don't believe that anyone deserves any kind of punishment. The only justifiable reason for punishment is to disincentive people from doing the same behaviour again and for self-growth. Other than that it should never be done.


Wait a minute... Are you saying people whose brains might be wired differently shouldn't be punished for their crimes? I'm autistic, so my brain is wired differently, but if I commit a crime, I should be punished.


Their is no purpose for punishment if it does nothing that's why I am against punching Richard Spencer all it does is inflicts pain. Obviously I should add people should be sent to prison for their crimes to prevent it from happening again.


You get me wrong. I don't want Spencer punished just for having abhorrent ideas, as that's not a crime. I'm just not upset about a fed up black man slugging him.


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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer