Communicating with Russians

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15 Jul 2017, 10:33 am

Of course, he can't be trusted.
My conspiracy theory. Russians are sorry they backed Trump. They are now engaging in a disinformation campaign against Trump to cut their losses. It is up to Muller to figure out this mess, not me.

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jrjones9933
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15 Jul 2017, 11:41 am

In one sense, Russia did win. They have a US government who seem uncertain and paralyzed. That phenomenon shows no signs of ending.

Things don't look good for my people here in the US, though. We should have united against a common adversary, to some extent. There should be a reasonable middle in Congress who can fix the real problems with our health care. Establishment Dems are making all the right noises about being ready to work, but I just don't see Trump/McConnell/Ryan having a serious willingness to engage.

I have also wondered why the DNCC would spend so much on these special elections to replace Trump appointees. The people who made the short lists would not select someone if they didn't feel sure of electing another Republican from that region to replace the appointee. Maybe the DNCC feels like they need to build morale and momentum by fighting for every seat, but I don't see how a string of expensive losses going into the midterms improves morale.

For myself, I really didn't think our government gridlock could get any worse after Obama and a Republican dominated Congress, but it has. Instead of Texas suing to limit Executive Privilege, we have California. No real change there, in terms of policy implementation.

The Republicans had it fairly easy, knowing Obama would veto all of their favorite legislation. The proposals didn't even really have to make sense, but only sound good. Now that has changed, and even though they had 6 years, they have no feasible reform plan.

On one hand, I feel relived that the Trump/Pence policy agenda has stalled. On the other hand, I take a Democratic view that the institutions of the government serve a lot of useful functions, which this chaos threatens.

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15 Jul 2017, 12:18 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Tangent:

Russians didn't expect Trump to win and had no real interest in getting him into power. Their primary goal was to sow confusion and undermine trust in American democracy. If their boy won and did what they wanted they'd leave him alone; but since the sanctions are still in place and eliminating them doesn't appear to be on the agenda they're sticking to the main plan of making a joke out of the American political system. Guess who's the punchline?

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jrjones9933
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15 Jul 2017, 3:29 pm

The Russians appear clumsy. Let's not overstate the simplicity of sending a lawyer with a dossier of dirt on the Hils. As Ezra has mentioned, they didn't break any great security. Of course, it's still a crime to steal an unlocked bike.

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15 Jul 2017, 3:57 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

The difference is, the Democrats never lied about such inquiries, nor did they ever fire anyone in charge of an investigation into said inquiries. The Democrats have nothing to hide on this subject, but Trump and company definitely do. That implies something illegal.

What does Trump and company definitely have to hide on this subject at this point?

Must be pretty bad, considering that Trump fired his head of the FBI. Why would they be lying about such meetings with the Russians if there's nothing there?

That's just speculation though.

What I noticed with junior's meeting with the Russian is that it didn't take years of investigating to find out about it. And there was no lack of disclosure or anonymous parties involved. Who, what, when, where, why and how were all clearly spelled out. To me that's what something genuine looks like.

Compare that to the other stuff that contains no details and has anonymous sources, that's comprised entirely of claims, accusations, speculation and innuendo and is supposed to require years of investigation. To me that's what something bogus looks like.

Lying about it implies consciousness of guilt. Firing the head of the FBI, in order to stop the Russian investigation, shows there is something very much there, very much like Nixon firing the Watergate special prosecutor.

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jrjones9933
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18 Jul 2017, 3:18 pm

Members of the Trump campaign were accessories after the fact to Russian criminal interference with our election. That's okay now?

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19 Jul 2017, 2:35 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Does this really have to be an all-or-nothing issue?

Yeah, the Russians probably influenced the American election, but there were plenty of other factors at work.

Furthermore, America has influenced Russian elections in the past. America meddled with the post-Soviet elections in order to get Yeltsin into power. That was a disaster for the Russian people ... but it was another victory for corporate America.

What goes around comes around I guess.

America has meddled in loads of other countries elections. Very much what goes around comes around.

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19 Jul 2017, 8:24 am

Biscuitman wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

America has meddled in loads of other countries elections. Very much what goes around comes around.

When the United States does it, it's to protect democracy. Everything the USA does is for good and noble purposes. All others are vile criminals who deserve America's devine punishment.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord; he is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored....

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19 Jul 2017, 2:26 pm

Sure, we've interfered with other countries' elections. But we've since admitted that we had, and how wrong we had been. Plus, this is our country, so I hardly want to see anything detrimental happen to it at the hands of an enemy, especially with a segment of our country cheering it on.

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19 Jul 2017, 4:26 pm

The other world leaders could see, but not hear, the hour-long unscheduled conversation among Trump, Putin, and Putin's interpreter. This followed close on the heels of their two hour long meeting, originally scheduled for half an hour. Besties!

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19 Jul 2017, 5:26 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Donny was just receiving orders from his boss.

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jrjones9933
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20 Jul 2017, 3:13 pm

Quote:

In the Times interview, the president also took aim at the special counsel appointed to take over the Russia investigation, Robert Mueller, saying Mueller would be crossing a "red line" if he began investigating Trump's personal finances.

I don't want to burn a monthly NYT article to read the interview, but this reference from a Reuters article deserves comment.

DJT just told everyone where to find the Russia connection, if his pattern holds.

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20 Jul 2017, 3:29 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Quote:

I wonder how the Republicans will try defending Trump when he fires Mueller for looking at Ivanka's, Erick's, and Jr's bankrolls.

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EzraS
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20 Jul 2017, 4:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

Quote:

I wonder how the Republicans will try defending Trump when he fires Mueller for looking at Ivanka's, Erick's, and Jr's bankrolls.

He was being too nosy.

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20 Jul 2017, 7:46 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

Quote:

I wonder how the Republicans will try defending Trump when he fires Mueller for looking at Ivanka's, Erick's, and Jr's bankrolls.

He was being too nosy.

If you mean Mueller, then no, as he'd just be doing his job.

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EzraS
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20 Jul 2017, 8:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

Quote:

I wonder how the Republicans will try defending Trump when he fires Mueller for looking at Ivanka's, Erick's, and Jr's bankrolls.

He was being too nosy.

If you mean Mueller, then no, as he'd just be doing his job.

William Stoughton was just doing his job too.

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