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Why aren't we allowed to preach about homosexuality?

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Lintar
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29 Jul 2017, 10:13 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Lintar wrote:
1 Corinthians 6:9–11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (ESV)


Keep googling and not all versions will mention homosexuality, in fact most wont, you've cherry picked one that does. People are still uncertain as to the exact meaning of the translation of the original words. That it involves some form of immorality isn't disputed but the exact form still is.

Again. Thousands of pages and here were are debating minutiae over single words. If homosexuality really was a sin you'd think it would be more explicit.


Now you're accusing me of cherry-picking. Absolutely hilarious. You wanted specific passages, and so I gave them to you. Now you're making the, totally unwarranted, assertions that "not all versions mention homosexuality", and that people are "uncertain" about the meaning, and that it should be "more explicit" (really? how much more explicit do you want it to be?).

Look, stop making excuses. You're wrong, so just admit it.



funeralxempire
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29 Jul 2017, 10:13 pm

Lintar wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It's not unfair to suggest that Muhammad/the early Islamic community conflated figures they made reference to...


Exactly! So what does that tell you? It certainly tells me that he wasn't inspired in any way, that's for sure. It tells me that I shouldn't trust such a person, that his information is unreliable, that what he preaches is false. Confusing Miriam the sister of Moses with Mary the mother of Christ is a pretty BIG mistake, wouldn't you say?


I'd saying getting overly invested in ancient people's mentally ill imaginary friends is a pretty big mistake, although that's much easier to say as a materialist. The more invested and the more destructive the behaviour one allows that investment to justify the bigger the mistake.


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Lintar
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29 Jul 2017, 10:14 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Lintar wrote:
1 Corinthians 6:9–11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (ESV)


Keep googling and not all versions will mention homosexuality, in fact most wont, you've cherry picked one that does. People are still uncertain as to the exact meaning of the translation of the original words. That it involves some form of immorality isn't disputed but the exact form still is.

Again. Thousands of pages and here were are debating minutiae over single words. If homosexuality really was a sin you'd think it would be more explicit.

I do want your interpretation to prevail.


Why do you want this? His view will not prevail, because it is wrong, he is mistaken.



Lintar
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29 Jul 2017, 10:19 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Lintar wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It's not unfair to suggest that Muhammad/the early Islamic community conflated figures they made reference to...


Exactly! So what does that tell you? It certainly tells me that he wasn't inspired in any way, that's for sure. It tells me that I shouldn't trust such a person, that his information is unreliable, that what he preaches is false. Confusing Miriam the sister of Moses with Mary the mother of Christ is a pretty BIG mistake, wouldn't you say?


I'd saying getting overly invested in ancient people's mentally ill imaginary friends is a pretty big mistake, although that's much easier to say as a materialist. The more invested and the more destructive the behaviour one allows that investment to justify the bigger the mistake.


Mentally ill imaginary friends! Well now, we see your true colours. I don't believe in imaginary friends, mentally ill or otherwise, and neither do most Christians I suspect. Language like this usually comes from self-satisfied YouTube atheists who like to get on their soap-box and pontificate about how utterly deranged we all are for not accepting their view of reality. They then go on to try to show us all how wrong we apparently are with lame philosophical arguments for the non-existence of God that a five-year-old theist would easily punch holes through.



Chichikov
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29 Jul 2017, 10:23 pm

Lintar wrote:
Now you're accusing me of cherry-picking. Absolutely hilarious. You wanted specific passages, and so I gave them to you. Now you're making the, totally unwarranted, assertions that "not all versions mention homosexuality", and that people are "uncertain" about the meaning, and that it should be "more explicit" (really? how much more explicit do you want it to be?).

The version you quoted was explicit but it's only one interpretation. Others are less explicit. I keep coming back to the fact that so many sins are explicitly defined in The Bible with no ambiguity, so if homosexuality is a sin why are we arguing over semantics and translations?



Lintar
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29 Jul 2017, 10:35 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Now you're accusing me of cherry-picking. Absolutely hilarious. You wanted specific passages, and so I gave them to you. Now you're making the, totally unwarranted, assertions that "not all versions mention homosexuality", and that people are "uncertain" about the meaning, and that it should be "more explicit" (really? how much more explicit do you want it to be?).

The version you quoted was explicit but it's only one interpretation. Others are less explicit. I keep coming back to the fact that so many sins are explicitly defined in The Bible with no ambiguity, so if homosexuality is a sin why are we arguing over semantics and translations?


1 Corinthians 6:9-11 New International Version (NIV)

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The KJV is rather notorious for being imprecise and using euphemisms that are often difficult to understand. Both the NIV and KJV are the two most popular English language versions now currently in use. "...nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind" means... ? What do you think it means?



funeralxempire
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29 Jul 2017, 10:35 pm

Lintar wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Lintar wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It's not unfair to suggest that Muhammad/the early Islamic community conflated figures they made reference to...


Exactly! So what does that tell you? It certainly tells me that he wasn't inspired in any way, that's for sure. It tells me that I shouldn't trust such a person, that his information is unreliable, that what he preaches is false. Confusing Miriam the sister of Moses with Mary the mother of Christ is a pretty BIG mistake, wouldn't you say?


I'd saying getting overly invested in ancient people's mentally ill imaginary friends is a pretty big mistake, although that's much easier to say as a materialist. The more invested and the more destructive the behaviour one allows that investment to justify the bigger the mistake.




Mentally ill imaginary friends! Well now, we see your true colours. I don't believe in imaginary friends, mentally ill or otherwise, and neither do most Christians I suspect. Language like this usually comes from self-satisfied YouTube atheists who like to get on their soap-box and pontificate about how utterly deranged we all are for not accepting their view of reality. They then go on to try to show us all how wrong we apparently are with lame philosophical arguments for the non-existence of God that a five-year-old theist would easily punch holes through.


As a materialist, all deities are someone's imaginary friend. Based on the traits attributed to him, it's fair to suggest YHWH would be considered mentally ill. Paranoid, jealous, prone to rages - if he actually existed he'd need to be committed or otherwise dealt with to protect humanity.

No theist would accept the idea that their deities are imaginary (and many would question if they were friends for that matter), but I'll stand by that assessment. As for delusional, if someone begins explaining in depth the beliefs from another faith to you, would you accept them as perfectly valid, or possibly consider them impossible, unreasonable or out of touch with reality?

As for 'true colours' I already described myself as a materialist earlier, why are you surprised that I view the supernatural in a way consistent with a materialist understanding of the universe?


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29 Jul 2017, 10:42 pm

"Anti-Christian discrimination" literally does not exist.

Why don't these Christians know how to get a life?


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funeralxempire
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29 Jul 2017, 10:46 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
"Anti-Christian discrimination" literally does not exist.

Why don't these Christians know how to get a life?


It certainly can exist, whether or not it's widespread in the parts of the world where we all live is a separate question; whether or not it exists in any sort of institutional form would be an additional question.

If your primary intention is to keep taking a dump in the punchbowl can you leave and not come back until you intend on making reasonable contributions? You're making it pretty clear that 'anti-Christian harassment' exists literally.


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30 Jul 2017, 5:02 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
"Anti-Christian discrimination" literally does not exist.

Why don't these Christians know how to get a life?


Oh, it exists in places like Syria (under ISIS), Egypt, and other such places where Islamic fundamentalists have the run of the country. But it's also true that homosexuals are also cruelly treated in such places. But as for the Industrialized world - - not at all.


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30 Jul 2017, 10:48 am

Lintar wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
So if gay marrige should not be recognized by the church, I would imagine the same applies to non-christian ceremonies. Perhaps some gay couples should look to that, who needs Christianity to get married anyways.


You do of course realise, don't you, that it isn't just Christianity that opposes "gay marriage". The religions of Judaism and Islam are also opposed to it, so why does no one mention this? Hmmm... one can condemn and ridicule Christianity in all sorts of ways, because it is now the "trendy" thing to do, but let's never mention all of those other "reactionary" religions that exist.


Yes Islam and Judaism also have backwards veiws on homosexuality....I'd think Christians like yourself would have a higher regard for Islam considering you guys worship the same god and both see homosexuality as a sin. Why do Christians bring up Islam whenever anyone criticizes Christianity? Can't stay on topic?


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30 Jul 2017, 10:53 am

Lintar wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Both Muslims and Christians plagiarized the same Jewish God of the Old Testament, so all three religions worship the same God.


Oh boy. There are so many things wrong with this simple sentence that I do not know where to begin.

'Plagiarised'?! No. It is true that within the Bible itself there is a section called "The Old Testament" that covers the history, culture, religious practices and beliefs of the ancient Israelites, but the basic message of the New Testament is that the old, archaic laws, agreements and practices are no longer valid, having been superceded by the "new covenant", and that adherence to what is referred to in the text as "the law" is no longer what makes a person righteous. I know, there is much more to it than just this - a lot more - but I'm trying to be brief here.

The Quran almost never refers to events within the Old Testament. There are more references to people and places that occur in the New, and it often gets things wrong (ex. confuses the characters of Mary from the New Testament, with Miriam from the Old). The god "Allah" was originally part of a pantheon of gods, others being al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat, if I recall correctly. The "prophet" Mohammad came into contact with the Jews and Christians already living on the Arabian peninsula, and decided for reasons that are not entirely clear to start up his own monotheistic religion. Maybe he did it because it was a great business move, or perhaps it was just his epilepsy giving him delusions of messages from God.

Maybe those who wrote the scrolls and bits of text that were eventually put together and made into 'the bible' were delusional.

Also epilepsy doesn't cause delusions, epilepsy is a disorder that causes one to have excessive seizures...not sure if you knew that.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 30 Jul 2017, 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Jul 2017, 10:55 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Yes Islam and Judaism also have backwards veiws on homosexuality....I'd think Christians like yourself would have a higher regard for Islam considering you guys worship the same god and both see homosexuality as a sin. Why do Christians bring up Islam whenever anyone criticizes Christianity? Can't stay on topic?


My gf's father has a saying: Don't compare yourself to what's worse. They're basically using the same tactic the Soviets used to rebuttal all criticism in regards to human rights: Whataboutism.


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30 Jul 2017, 11:05 am

Lintar wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
The OP has still provided no evidence for his claims that priests are prevented from preaching about homosexuality in Australia and Canada. Has no one else noticed this?


Believe it or not, it is sometimes hard to find specific evidence like this. Yes, even in this day and age with the internet and all of that. I know for a fact that there was an incident that was widely reported in the press about three years ago of a priest getting into trouble with the law for preaching about how the Bible condemns certain sexual practices like homosexuality, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding it. There is just too much to search through, too many false leads.


So you don't actually have proof, just something you may recall from 3 years ago that you can't find.


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30 Jul 2017, 2:09 pm

All this pontificating. It's really very simple , if two men or women want to live and sleep together respect their right to do so.


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30 Jul 2017, 2:41 pm

Lintar wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
EzraS wrote:
According to the bible anything sexual outside of traditional male female marriage is a sin.
Even just getting the hots for someone is as much a sin as everything else.


This is why Christianity sucks and the Bible is garbage.

They are literally trying to destroy human nature.


Oh look. Politically Correct hate speech.

And nary a slap on the wrist to be found.


Yes, I noticed it too. Apparently it's okay to insult Christians, but not the members of any other religion (especially Muslims). 'Karathraceandherspecialdestiny', where are you now? Do you have nothing to say about this?

(Sound of chirping crickets)


Wow, I'm not even gone for a day and you flip out. Some of us have lives away from posting on the internet. It's the weekend. Chill out.