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Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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Joker
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07 Apr 2012, 2:51 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Are there any studies that track feminism activity increase and misogyny increase over time? I'll bet they rise together. Feminism keeps reminding us men of women's worst qualities -- unhinged emotionalism, etc. And the more women push men away, the more dysfunctional those women become. I think that's true about men pushing women away to a degree, but not quite as much. As I've said -- twice now -- the sexes are not equal.


No feminism, is female empowerment, that remind me of the good qualities about women. I don't see how it reminds men of their worst qualities care to elaborate? By saying the sexes are not equal makes you souund sexist.

They are equal in a lot of ways.


You don't seem to be able to understand my analogy, which no one addressed even though I've given it three times, about the apple and orange. I'm sorry that "equal" is a one-dimensional concept to you, but it does have other dimensions. I haven't had a period in my entire lifetime, yet my wife is bleeding out her vag as we speak. I guess those are just coincidences to the fact that she is a woman and I am a man. I mean, both sexes are equal, so what gives with me not bleeding too?


Men do not bleed the from their penis the way a women does from their vagina. But women do not have a porstate and do not get in check either so. Those are two diffrences biologically between the sexes but has no face value at all in regards to feminism.

When I say equal I mean both should be treated with the same repsect.



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07 Apr 2012, 3:00 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Are there any studies that track feminism activity increase and misogyny increase over time? I'll bet they rise together. Feminism keeps reminding us men of women's worst qualities -- unhinged emotionalism, etc. And the more women push men away, the more dysfunctional those women become. I think that's true about men pushing women away to a degree, but not quite as much. As I've said -- twice now -- the sexes are not equal, just as an apple is not an orange, neither do they carry the same qualities in the same degrees, even though both are good and neither is "better".


In response to the part I bolded: Women are equal in personhood and value, but you're right in that each gender does have its own advantages/disadvantages. That said, it does not mean I think women should be prohibited from working outside the home (or discriminated against due to gender), or stereotyped in any way. Each person, regardless of gender, is unique. And I say this as what I like to call a "moderate feminist".


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Ragtime
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07 Apr 2012, 3:03 pm

Joker wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Are there any studies that track feminism activity increase and misogyny increase over time? I'll bet they rise together. Feminism keeps reminding us men of women's worst qualities -- unhinged emotionalism, etc. And the more women push men away, the more dysfunctional those women become. I think that's true about men pushing women away to a degree, but not quite as much. As I've said -- twice now -- the sexes are not equal.


No feminism, is female empowerment, that remind me of the good qualities about women. I don't see how it reminds men of their worst qualities care to elaborate? By saying the sexes are not equal makes you souund sexist.

They are equal in a lot of ways.


You don't seem to be able to understand my analogy, which no one addressed even though I've given it three times, about the apple and orange. I'm sorry that "equal" is a one-dimensional concept to you, but it does have other dimensions. I haven't had a period in my entire lifetime, yet my wife is bleeding out her vag as we speak. I guess those are just coincidences to the fact that she is a woman and I am a man. I mean, both sexes are equal, so what gives with me not bleeding too?


Men do not bleed the from their penis the way a women does from their vagina. But women do not have a porstate and do not get in check either so. Those are two diffrences biologically between the sexes but has no face value at all in regards to feminism.

When I say equal I mean both should be treated with the same repsect.


And now we approach the difference I was trying to approach: I believe in treating women with equal respect as I do men, but feminist studies always aim to imply identicality of the sexes. I do not believe in treating women as if I do not know in any way that they are women. You can talk about prostate and vagina all you want, but the issues men and women have with those parts are neither the same in kind, nor are they the same in degree. Bend the data charts all you want, because that's what you'll have to do to make that point.

I respect women by, for one thing, respecting their differences from men. Most cultures find good in being whatever gender they are, and when people are secure in that, they enjoy being that gender, and seek not to minimize that fact as if ashamed but rather to enjoy it openly, even celebrate it. But in that case a man is celebrating his masculinity and a woman her femininity: two different (meaning unequal by definition) things.

A woman wearing a dress is celebrating her femininity. And why shouldn't she? There is no reason why not to -- unless you ask a feminist. See the problem?


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07 Apr 2012, 3:08 pm

LiberalJustice wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Are there any studies that track feminism activity increase and misogyny increase over time? I'll bet they rise together. Feminism keeps reminding us men of women's worst qualities -- unhinged emotionalism, etc. And the more women push men away, the more dysfunctional those women become. I think that's true about men pushing women away to a degree, but not quite as much. As I've said -- twice now -- the sexes are not equal, just as an apple is not an orange, neither do they carry the same qualities in the same degrees, even though both are good and neither is "better".


In response to the part I bolded: Women are equal in personhood and value, but you're right in that each gender does have its own advantages/disadvantages. That said, it does not mean I think women should be prohibited from working outside the home (or discriminated against due to gender), or stereotyped in any way. Each person, regardless of gender, is unique. And I say this as what I like to call a "moderate feminist".


Well, I guess I agree 100% with a moderate feminist, then. But, as a side note, good luck stopping stereotyping!


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Joker
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07 Apr 2012, 3:09 pm

Ragtime wrote:
LiberalJustice wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Are there any studies that track feminism activity increase and misogyny increase over time? I'll bet they rise together. Feminism keeps reminding us men of women's worst qualities -- unhinged emotionalism, etc. And the more women push men away, the more dysfunctional those women become. I think that's true about men pushing women away to a degree, but not quite as much. As I've said -- twice now -- the sexes are not equal, just as an apple is not an orange, neither do they carry the same qualities in the same degrees, even though both are good and neither is "better".


In response to the part I bolded: Women are equal in personhood and value, but you're right in that each gender does have its own advantages/disadvantages. That said, it does not mean I think women should be prohibited from working outside the home (or discriminated against due to gender), or stereotyped in any way. Each person, regardless of gender, is unique. And I say this as what I like to call a "moderate feminist".


Well, I guess I agree 100% with a moderate feminist, then. But, as a side note, good luck stopping stereotyping!


No one can stop stereotyping anything.



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07 Apr 2012, 3:11 pm

Joker wrote:
Mirror wrote:
I'm sure as everyone already assumes this assumption that we are truly not going to turn the other party around to our side. I'm literally saying "f**k it! :V". I am trying not to attack anyone. And I'm sorry if you all feel that because I sure feel it when I'm on this thread. I realized that this is going to be a useless battle to win? And I'm like, "Why am I still saying all this and trying to convince the other party." I have limited experience living in this world and shouldn't even be talking to be seen as a fool. But what comes down to it is that I'm a 23 year old girl in a very petite body. I can only tell you my experience and view of the world from my own eyes. Man is the tool that measures the world. And in itself is flawed.

I can go on and tell you all my core beliefs. But that would open me to ridicule and sniping words.

And DW, I admire your drive, need and love for your children and how you work hard to provide for you kids. I don't mean to attack you in any way. Our lives are very different and I don't deny the attention and work that feminism has done to the Islamic world.

All I can say is I believe in biblical marriage roles.


Their are a lot of ways to view biblical marriage roles if you care to study it further. Me and you are the same age wich means we both have the. Same amount of life experience think about it this way some people don't get to live that long. Sure Ragtime is older but older never means wiser but I respect your opinon more so then I do his.


Thanks, I just don't want to be seen as arrogant and not knowing any better.

I believe that a wife should be submissive to the husband. And I know that I will be flamed for this thought process. I am only talking about myself and what I have gained from submitting to my husband. And we are not like slave and Master. I willfully submit to him. In fact, since I pushed my selfish pride away and submitted to him as the head of the household I have never felt more free, fulfilled and at peace in my life. To me it just feels right and natural. And are relationship has never been better. We hardly ever fight. (Like almost once a year!) I have never felt more beautiful and loved and wanted! I have gained self worth and confidence because I know my role in life. I have no confusion of who I am and why I was placed on earth. All because I believe and trust in God/Jesus.

Submitting to my husband and loving God has honestly turned my life around to nothing but positiveness.

And I wanted to share on the boards that there are women out there who feel just like I do.


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07 Apr 2012, 3:14 pm

Mirror wrote:
And I wanted to share on the boards that there are women out there who feel just like I do.


What would happen if you had serious misgivings about his behaviour or his decision-making? Could you have your voice heard and respected or would he beat you or bully you into submission?

That's the true sticking point I think.



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07 Apr 2012, 3:15 pm

Joker wrote:

Then we both can agree and yes the fact she is female does mean zero. Moral of the story anyone can lose of be bad with money.


No, moral of the story; when you mandate that X% of Y role must by Z gender, regardless of qualifications, you create a situation in which you are likely to get unqualified people in high positions. It's relevant to women because I've yet to see men being mandated into the boards and executive positions.

You also create a situation in which you promote gender discrimination because if a woman gets a job because she's a woman despite there being more qualified male applicants you have in fact been sexist. See, its funny how a lot of the things that have been done to appease feminists results in gender discrimination.



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07 Apr 2012, 3:17 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Are there any studies that track feminism activity increase and misogyny increase over time? I'll bet they rise together. Feminism keeps reminding us men of women's worst qualities -- unhinged emotionalism, etc. And the more women push men away, the more dysfunctional those women become. I think that's true about men pushing women away to a degree, but not quite as much. As I've said -- twice now -- the sexes are not equal.


No feminism, is female empowerment, that remind me of the good qualities about women. I don't see how it reminds men of their worst qualities care to elaborate? By saying the sexes are not equal makes you souund sexist.

They are equal in a lot of ways.


You don't seem to be able to understand my analogy, which no one addressed even though I've given it three times, about the apple and orange. I'm sorry that "equal" is a one-dimensional concept to you, but it does have other dimensions. I haven't had a period in my entire lifetime, yet my wife is bleeding out her vag as we speak. I guess those are just coincidences to the fact that she is a woman and I am a man. I mean, both sexes are equal, so what gives with me not bleeding too?


Men do not bleed the from their penis the way a women does from their vagina. But women do not have a porstate and do not get in check either so. Those are two diffrences biologically between the sexes but has no face value at all in regards to feminism.

When I say equal I mean both should be treated with the same repsect.


And now we approach the difference I was trying to approach: I believe in treating women with equal respect as I do men, but feminist studies always aim to imply identicality of the sexes. I do not believe in treating women as if I do not know in any way that they are women. You can talk about prostate and vagina all you want, but the issues men and women have with those parts are neither the same in kind, nor are they the same in degree. Bend the data charts all you want, because that's what you'll have to do to make that point.

I respect women by, for one thing, respecting their differences from men. Most cultures find good in being whatever gender they are, and when people are secure in that, they enjoy being that gender, and seek not to minimize that fact as if ashamed but rather to enjoy it openly, even celebrate it. But in that case a man is celebrating his masculinity and a woman her femininity: two different (meaning unequal by definition) things.

A woman wearing a dress is celebrating her femininity. And why shouldn't she? There is no reason why not to -- unless you ask a feminist. See the problem?


No I am afriad I do not see the problem at all :scratch: And I didn't twist any chart gave you my thoughts that doesn't mean I twsited any chart to fit my arguement.



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07 Apr 2012, 3:18 pm

Mirror wrote:

I believe that a wife should be submissive to the husband. And I know that I will be flamed for this thought process. I am only talking about myself and what I have gained from submitting to my husband.


I don't understand how you can say that you think a wife should be submissive, as in all wives; but then say you are only talking about yourself.


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07 Apr 2012, 3:19 pm

Alexender wrote:
Mirror wrote:

I believe that a wife should be submissive to the husband. And I know that I will be flamed for this thought process. I am only talking about myself and what I have gained from submitting to my husband.


I don't understand how you can say that you think a wife should be submissive, as in all wives; but then say you are only talking about yourself.


No matter how tolerant they pretend to be religious adherents think their way is the only way


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07 Apr 2012, 3:20 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:

Then we both can agree and yes the fact she is female does mean zero. Moral of the story anyone can lose of be bad with money.


No, moral of the story; when you mandate that X% of Y role must by Z gender, regardless of qualifications, you create a situation in which you are likely to get unqualified people in high positions. It's relevant to women because I've yet to see men being mandated into the boards and executive positions.

You also create a situation in which you promote gender discrimination because if a woman gets a job because she's a woman despite there being more qualified male applicants you have in fact been sexist. See, its funny how a lot of the things that have been done to appease feminists results in gender discrimination.


Hmm I understand that's how you see thing's my mother how ever would disagree.



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07 Apr 2012, 3:21 pm

Still waiting to see a reply to DW_a_mom...


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07 Apr 2012, 3:22 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Still waiting to see a reply to DW_a_mom...


They are to preocupied aruging with me it seems.



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07 Apr 2012, 3:22 pm

Joker wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Joker wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Joker wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
it baffles me that people are ignoring DW_a_mom's posts.


She should be flattered. It just means they are not easy targets :P


DW_a_mom gave a very good post so good that it left me postless really who could aruge with such strong points that she made.


Only someone arguing from an intellectually honest and credible position which is not what her opponents in this thread have

it was disheartening because she specifically explained feminism and addressed how members are making generalisations about the movement, then... members ignored it and went back to posting the exact same empty stuff.


Vigilians I agree and WP mother she did I do confess to making such posts...I apologize.


no, i was talking to the anti-feminist posters


Sorry mom :lol: dang silly me I should have known better.


The irony of this is that when the anti-feminist posters generalize and attribute motives and such to a whole movement its wrong, when someone on Hyper's side does it she's fine with it.

I assume that not every feminist has the exact same motive and such for being a feminist or are you all the same, share the same interpretation of the ideology and the same ideas on how to further it? Because if so, I hardly see the problem in generalizing about the movement.



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07 Apr 2012, 3:23 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Still waiting to see a reply to DW_a_mom...


I'm still waiting to see a reply to His_Devine's statistics posted about 10 pages before her post. I believe you made a creationist comment and then walked off with your tail between your legs.