Viva Chavez!

Page 2 of 3 [ 37 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,691
Location: Houston, Texas

16 Oct 2009, 9:38 am

I think Chavez is more under fire for shutting down independent media than anything else.

Power to the People my a**.

_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Last edited by Tim_Tex on 16 Oct 2009, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

MussoliniBismarck
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 57
Location: Jefferson State

16 Oct 2009, 9:41 am

And insulting the great country of America. :roll:

DrFremdliebe
Butterfly

Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

16 Oct 2009, 10:33 am

Tim_Tex wrote:

I think Chavez is more under fire for shutting down independent media than anything else.

Power to the People my a**.

How independent are the US media?

_________________
La loi, c'est moi

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

16 Oct 2009, 12:04 pm

DrFremdliebe wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

I think Chavez is more under fire for shutting down independent media than anything else.

Power to the People my a**.

How independent are the US media?

How do you define independent?

The vast majority of the media is privately owned but the number of owners is slimming down more and more as companies merge together or otherwise acquire other companies. The interests represented on those media outlets are normally very limited and do not reflect viewerships' interests but rather just ownerships' interest.

The media can do what it will...but its will is restricted by those who have all the money.

They wasted how much news coverage yesterday on some douchebag family who lied about losing their kid? And how much more will they waste on reporting every other stupid detail ad nauseum regarding the whole garbage pile now? How much real news will be reported?

It's "independent" from government influence but the reporters and journalists, in general, are about as dependent as a 2 year old.

_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson

techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,685
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

16 Oct 2009, 12:05 pm

DrFremdliebe wrote:

Room to maneuver, that is much use when you have no healthcare, education and retirement.

Exactly - for free health care for all, government education, and retirement are worth, to some, the removal of free public discourse is a small price to pay. I at least believe that people who say they believe that this is the best possible course likely both do believe as they say and also understand the consequences and are perfectly ok with them. Some people want to live under sharia as well, that is in fact their honest preference. This is why people can get in such a brawl over this and those with poor empathic senses can easily give in to calling the other side 'evil'.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

16 Oct 2009, 12:20 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

DrFremdliebe wrote:

Room to maneuver, that is much use when you have no healthcare, education and retirement.

Think about that very carefully. After you have surrendered your right to free speech and political protest, the government cuts back on the welfare goodies to save money, but you are no longer in a position to complain, since you have surrendered your right to free speech political protest.

Your proposal is dead on arrival.

ruveyn

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

16 Oct 2009, 12:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:

After you have surrendered your right to free speech and political protest

That's already been suspended. Take this "free speech zone" for example:

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

16 Oct 2009, 12:50 pm

more photos:

http://www.brumax.com/freedomofspeech.htm

ZEGH8578
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Feb 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,532

16 Oct 2009, 1:05 pm

DrFremdliebe wrote:

ZEGH8578 wrote:

¡Viva la revolución!

¡Viva!

Do you approve all that Cuban violence?

sure why not?
it was violence that beat germany back too.

_________________
''In the world I see - you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center.''

Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,691
Location: Houston, Texas

16 Oct 2009, 2:56 pm

DrFremdliebe wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

I think Chavez is more under fire for shutting down independent media than anything else.

Power to the People my a**.

How independent are the US media?

They're independent in that they're not owned by the government. The U.S. doesn't have an equivalent to Xinhua in China, or Itar-Tass in Russia.

There is something for everyone. There are people ranging from Bill O'Reilly on the conservative side, to Al Franken (before he got the Senate seat) on the liberal side.

_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

16 Oct 2009, 3:02 pm

DrFremdliebe wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I am not so certain that authoritarian socialism is much different than Marxism.

Not only that, but why do we assume that there is a working system? We may say that the ideal goal is a working system, and that such a thing is possible, but I am not sure a stronger assumption, like the notion that a working system necessarily exists makes sense, especially given that we are already outside of the habitat for which our intuitions were made to correspond well to.

Authoritarian socialism, Chavez-style, allows private ownership.

The USSR experimented with that as well. (I assumed that by "Marxism" this was what was meant, just in case anyone thought I was jumping too quickly) It was the New Economic Policy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy We can say that they only allowed this for a short period of time, but still, this does not impress me as being so radically different.

Not only that, but the second point still seems valid. I mean, you are saying that authoritarian socialism wins by default for not failing. The issue is that if all systems fail is a real possibility, then we don't have to accept authoritarian socialism as a solution by default. The reason being that there is little sign of it having outstanding success, as Hugo Chavez is better known as running an oil-driven economy than a high-growth economy.

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

16 Oct 2009, 3:05 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

DrFremdliebe wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

I think Chavez is more under fire for shutting down independent media than anything else.

Power to the People my a**.

How independent are the US media?

There's nothing for the libertarian other than anarcho-capitalist crap which really is only present to serve the corporatist agenda.

Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,691
Location: Houston, Texas

16 Oct 2009, 3:06 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

DrFremdliebe wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

I think Chavez is more under fire for shutting down independent media than anything else.

Power to the People my a**.

How independent are the US media?

There's nothing for the libertarian other than anarcho-capitalist crap which really is only present to serve the corporatist agenda.

Crap.

_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

16 Oct 2009, 3:14 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

DrFremdliebe wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

I think Chavez is more under fire for shutting down independent media than anything else.

Power to the People my a**.

How independent are the US media?

There's nothing for the libertarian other than anarcho-capitalist crap which really is only present to serve the corporatist agenda.

Crap.

Seriously....the "libertarians" on tv are mostly just deregulation-laiden anarcho-capitalist rhetoric but when it comes to other matters that the libertarian platform is "mind your own business", they ramp up on the social conservatism and act like as if their personal, conservative beliefs should be law.

phil777
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 May 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,825
Location: Montreal, Québec

16 Oct 2009, 3:41 pm

He used to have my respect while he was putting bars in the American's wheels, but uh, after i read that he tried to modify the constitution to allow himself to serve more terms than was allowed, he kinda dropped in my esteem.

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

16 Oct 2009, 3:57 pm

I tend to think of Hugo as the world leader equivalent of an internet troll, yes he's loud and distracting, but as tempting as it may be to smack him down, it's usually better to just ignore him. I do wish the alternative fuel people would hurry up a bit so we didn't have to do business with his ilk anymore, but in the meantime I'm content to buy his oil and let him rave about the numerous conspiracies trying to kill him, though if it could somehow be arranged for him to choke to death on his own overwrought rhetoric, I'd probably be down.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Page 2 of 3 [ 37 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Jump to:

Viva Chavez! Post Reply New Topic

Viva Chavez!