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Mysty
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19 Jan 2010, 10:48 am

Sand wrote:
One cannot accept the existence of God as a creator of the universe and let it go at that. God carries a lot of moral and cultural baggage and His assumed creation of the universe indicates intent in many directions. An atheist acts as if there is no intent in the universe. It just is.


You can't. Doesn't mean it's not true for others. Not everyone thinks like you. And not everyone has the same concept of God as you.


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Sand
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19 Jan 2010, 10:55 am

Mysty wrote:
Sand wrote:
One cannot accept the existence of God as a creator of the universe and let it go at that. God carries a lot of moral and cultural baggage and His assumed creation of the universe indicates intent in many directions. An atheist acts as if there is no intent in the universe. It just is.


You can't. Doesn't mean it's not true for others. Not everyone thinks like you. And not everyone has the same concept of God as you.


What is your concept of a God that created the universe as if it were a piece of kleenex and then threw it out of His consciousness?
Odd God.



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19 Jan 2010, 11:16 am

Sand wrote:
What is your concept of a God that created the universe as if it were a piece of kleenex and then threw it out of His consciousness?
Odd God.

Look up deism.


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Sand
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19 Jan 2010, 11:33 am

Vince wrote:
Sand wrote:
What is your concept of a God that created the universe as if it were a piece of kleenex and then threw it out of His consciousness?
Odd God.

Look up deism.


I hadn't gone into it before . Thanks for the pointer. One form, at least, seems to indicate a God that created the universe as a perfect mechanism and required no further supernatural intervention. Looked at sensibly it indicates that something supernatural did create the universe and, in effect, walked away. To my thinking this form of god is merely an unknown and unknowable first cause which is scarcely different from a mere process of forces acceptd by science and for all practical purposes no god at all. It's a rather baroque form of atheism since no performance of human activity has any consequence in influencing this totally distant theoretical supernatural being.



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19 Jan 2010, 12:21 pm

Sand wrote:
I hadn't gone into it before . Thanks for the pointer. One form, at least, seems to indicate a God that created the universe as a perfect mechanism and required no further supernatural intervention. Looked at sensibly it indicates that something supernatural did create the universe and, in effect, walked away. To my thinking this form of god is merely an unknown and unknowable first cause which is scarcely different from a mere process of forces acceptd by science and for all practical purposes no god at all. It's a rather baroque form of atheism since no performance of human activity has any consequence in influencing this totally distant theoretical supernatural being.

I didn't say it wasn't pointless. It's still a god belief that some people have. It's essentially the god who sets the top spinning on the floor and watches it dance without touching it.


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19 Jan 2010, 4:45 pm

Though pretty much an atheist, I find this to easily be the most intriguing idea of god.

Anybody read Isaac Asimov's Last Question?


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Mysty
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19 Jan 2010, 5:47 pm

Sand wrote:
Mysty wrote:
Sand wrote:
One cannot accept the existence of God as a creator of the universe and let it go at that. God carries a lot of moral and cultural baggage and His assumed creation of the universe indicates intent in many directions. An atheist acts as if there is no intent in the universe. It just is.


You can't. Doesn't mean it's not true for others. Not everyone thinks like you. And not everyone has the same concept of God as you.


What is your concept of a God that created the universe as if it were a piece of kleenex and then threw it out of His consciousness?
Odd God.


It's not my concept.

See this thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt116460.html


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Mysty
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19 Jan 2010, 5:49 pm

Vince wrote:
Sand wrote:
I hadn't gone into it before . Thanks for the pointer. One form, at least, seems to indicate a God that created the universe as a perfect mechanism and required no further supernatural intervention. Looked at sensibly it indicates that something supernatural did create the universe and, in effect, walked away. To my thinking this form of god is merely an unknown and unknowable first cause which is scarcely different from a mere process of forces acceptd by science and for all practical purposes no god at all. It's a rather baroque form of atheism since no performance of human activity has any consequence in influencing this totally distant theoretical supernatural being.

I didn't say it wasn't pointless. It's still a god belief that some people have. It's essentially the god who sets the top spinning on the floor and watches it dance without touching it.


The point of bringing it up was that such a person isn't an atheist, and yet, there's not going to be any profound difference in how they live their lives versus and atheist.


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MartyMoose
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19 Jan 2010, 6:35 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg&feature=rec-r2-2r-7-HM[/youtube]



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19 Jan 2010, 8:11 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/youtube]


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Sand
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19 Jan 2010, 8:48 pm

It seems to me that a god that is inactive can safely be disregarded as a god.



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19 Jan 2010, 9:17 pm

Sand wrote:
It seems to me that a god that is inactive can safely be disregarded as a god.

So can a god that can't be positively demonstrated to manifest in reality. Hence my not believing in any sort of god.


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19 Jan 2010, 10:12 pm

Vince wrote:
Sand wrote:
It seems to me that a god that is inactive can safely be disregarded as a god.

So can a god that can't be positively demonstrated to manifest in reality. Hence my not believing in any sort of god.


As an atheist I can only concur. Nevertheless accepting a powerless deity seems a rather distinct form of insanity.



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19 Jan 2010, 10:17 pm

Sand wrote:
As an atheist I can only concur. Nevertheless accepting a powerless deity seems a rather distinct form of insanity.

Deism is for people who have come to terms with the fact that god doesn't do antyhing, but are not ready to accept that he didn't create anything eihter.


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19 Jan 2010, 10:26 pm

Vince wrote:
Sand wrote:
As an atheist I can only concur. Nevertheless accepting a powerless deity seems a rather distinct form of insanity.

Deism is for people who have come to terms with the fact that god doesn't do antyhing, but are not ready to accept that he didn't create anything eihter.


I wonder why it is of any consequence if people day God created the universe or merely that no one really knows how it all started. Is it a form of egomania to merely deny ignorance?



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19 Jan 2010, 10:49 pm

Sand wrote:
I wonder why it is of any consequence if people day God created the universe or merely that no one really knows how it all started. Is it a form of egomania to merely deny ignorance?

Maybe they for some reason buy into the cosmological/first cause argument for the existence of God (presumably out of not thinking about it for more than two seconds), or maybe they've been raised to believe in God, but over time lost most of that belief except for the creator bit, or maybe they cling to believing in God because it's more socially accepted than questioning the existence of God. I don't really think it's any crazier than any other form of theism.


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