Tax evasion: good or evil?

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The government, whether it "needs" the quantity of money it levies or not, still requires the taxes to be paid. If they aren't, then appeal to force is applied. However, since tax is based on income, it is not so terribly bad. If taxes were required of all people regardless of financial ability, then that would be horrible. But such is not the case in the US at the least.

NEWS FLASH! That's been the deal since the 1930's. The Federal Reserve Bank is a private institution, not a government one.

That said....

Taxes are a necessary evil. There must be a way to fund NECESSARY government structures.

However, taxes are routinely abused to control a population, and spending programs not only tend to expand government power, but they also tend to stifle self-sufficiency.

"Tax evasion" is a tricky term. There is a companion term, "tax avoidance," and depending on who you talk to, one is good and the other is bad. In recent years, the IRS has tried to use "tax avoidance" and "tax evasion" interchangeably.

I know from prior documents that "tax avoidance" is not illegal. Tax avoidance is where you exploit every LEGAL avenue available to minimize what you pay in taxes. Tax evasion is where you simply refuse to pay a tax.

Tax avoidance is best illustrated by a commuter who needs to drive from work to home every day. His trip requires him to cross a river serviced by two bridges. One bridge is the more direct route but you pay $5 a day to use it. The other bridge is about a mile out of your way, but it's a public project and free. Both are legal ways to cross the river, but one charges you. For the "cost" of a little more travel time, you can save over $1,800 a year by choosing the option that saves you money.

The IRS heavily favors corporations and other "tax shelter" structures. For the effort of some paperwork and documentation, you can legally avoid paying taxes on a lot of things. If you want to do the easiest thing for dealing with the IRS, you pay the highest amount of taxes.

That said, I have no issue against those who commit "tax evasion." There is no lawful authority for the income tax. There is no law mandating a duty to pay the income tax. As I detailed in another thread, you become obligated to pay the income tax when you sign your tax return...it becomes an admission of your obligation to pay. The IRS has a law mandating that you must file a return. They will go after you if you don't follow their instructions (which are not based on any "law"...only in-house tax policy), and by following their instructions, you are guaranteed to owe taxes.

It is also established that every penny of the personal income tax is used to repay the Federal Reserve Bank for the money it lent to the USA with interest. The federal government borrows every penny in the budget every year from the Federal Reserve Bank. It is 100% unnecessary because the Constitution gives the US government the power to print and coin its own currency. There is no need to go to a private banking structure for funding.

Actually it is based on the sane idea that government misspends the money it takes from its subjects by force or threat of force. The American revolution started as a tax rebellion against the stamp tax.

ruveyn

For my own country, if the government did not really do much to specifically help me, even to the best of my efforts... I guess I feel compelled to evade as much taxes as I could, because all along I had been helping myself all along and I want my taxes to be a reflection of my 'self-help' statement...

+1

It is said that the power to tax is the power to destroy, and this is true.

Some level of taxation is a necessity because government needs funding to do what it needs to do, but the more you let government grow, the more money it wants. Government doesn't make a product or offer a service that competes on the open market. Government generally produces nothing or runs a monopoly on a key service and extorts grand sums to fund all of it.

Government makes me think of the Tribble from Star Trek. A nice and cute thing to have around, maybe even desirable, but feed it a little and it multiplies. Feed it too much and it takes over every square inch of space on the station.

tribble trouble thread

... and eventually eats you, too!

Yeah, I know. I guess I should've said "the government would just print out MORE money than they already do".

Tax evasion is a crime. People who do it should be jailed.

Maybe, it depends on the government and the tax. But that is probably for 0.000001 % of the planet. The rest of tax evaders are self-delluded idiots who LOVE it when the government gives them security (police), infrastructure (streets, etc) or keeping a good environment for their business but feel like they should be entitled to those benefits without having to pay.

That's a vague statement.

Own a home (rent counts if the homeowner does this)? Your PROPERTY TAXES pay for the police, fire, EMS, etc.

Like to have public roads? The gas tax is responsible for paying for this. Also comes from your auto registration fee (essentially a tax).

Pretty much every single benefit you enjoy from government comes from one or more forms of taxation imposed against you when you register property, get tags or licenses renewed, buy goods and services, etc.

The Income Tax doesn't pay for a single good or service you enjoy, and as government should not be borrowing to pay for stuff it doesn't have the money to pay for, you can't make a valid argument that we must repay the indebtedness of the administration in charge. It's illegal for anyone to obligate you to a debt without your express written consent. Government is free to spend money however it wishes so long as the money already physically exists in the coffers. It does not not have the right to borrow on your behalf then obligate you to pay for it without your consent.

Good you mentioned this.
Currently, people are being robbed in this money-printing inflation manner, not just taxation.

Taxation hasn't worked very good and even if it worked 10 times better I would still oppose it because of the methods to obtain it.
It is through intimidation and force that taxation is realized.
I don't agree with it on principle.
In essence it is plain robbery. Taking the money of one and giving it to another.

I'm all for voluntary fees.
Different communities with different requirements.
Today it is very unfair for the many who pay for certain things that end up not using or agreeing with at all.

Taxation is a primitive and barbaric way of paying for our necessities. We should be advocating voluntarism, secession, decentralization, deinstitutionalization, self governance and all the subjects related to these to accelerate the arrival of a more rational society.

So basically what it looks like it is happening is that they charge you for their management...
Ok, seems like it makes sense, but there is a problem.
They make tons of more money than you and you don't have a choice to refuse their management.
The services your money pays for(direct and indirect taxation) is not even half of what you actually give.
It would be good if you could choose from different managers... Something like you can do in the private sector when you choose one company over the other.
Governments don't compete like that.
The only type of competition you see is within political parties, but the changes they bring are minimal.
They all have one goal in common. Win elections, grow and perpetuate themselves in power.

LOL

LOL

Let's look beyond the indirection and look at the poll you wrote:

Tax invasion is a serious federal crime that carries serious penalties. The almost ebulliant "HECK YES!" shows an ideologically driven conservative, anti-tax zeal, and a more nuanced "No, but..." is consumed under a sarcastic "No way, José!" with a phrasing that suggests governments are by their nature entities alien to those they tax, and the funds collected are used for nefarious purposes.

If you look at feudalism or mercantilism, taxation is expressly for the direct benefit of the monarch or aristocracy because they are the constituency such a government serves. In a democracy, the government ideally serves the people. It serves as a way of enforcing a baseline code of behavior (the law) and pooling resources for collective needs like roads. It goes towards things such as universal health care when we as a nation of our wealth and civilization collectively accept it is unconscionable that a person die of curable disease because they could not afford the treatment. The civilization, the humanity, of a society depends on how it treats the least among it, not the wealthiest.

Of course fraud, waste, and ineffective programs need to be weeded out, but this does not prove the idea is fundamentally flawed. Politicians and government agencies need to be held accountable, and you have to remember a country gets the government it deserves—by who it votes for. What has to be remembered is that, when Republicans are crusading against taxes, welfare, and regulation, they have a stake in who fills the vacuum left behind. For-profit corporations respond to money, the profit motive, and if they don't see dollar signs when they look at you, you don't matter to them. If you're not a profit opportunity, a for-profit health insurer sees no business reason to keep you covered. And if you've got no other affordable options, just hope you don't get sick.

Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

I approve of anybody who evades a poll tax.

I also approve this totally.

So, you're faulting me because I make anyone who likes the idea of evading taxes an anti-tax crusader, but I don't allow for a nuanced acceptance of the legitimacy of taxes, instead using the term "No way, Jose!", which you believe is overly sarcastic. Now, I don't see "Jose" has sarcastic, a bit joking maybe, and certainly not something to say during a dramatic notion, but certainly not incredibly insulting. Not only that, but all governments are somewhat alien to their people, so the only thing I can be reasonably faulted for in that answer is not giving a thoroughly democracy worshiping answer, and part of that is that I don't see democracy worship as worth mentioning, and I doubt that most people really adhere to it so much as say "governments are generally looking out for our interests". Let's put it this way, most governments do things that the people won't like or currently don't really agree that much to or whatever. Really, one could probably argue more that I am not treating either side seriously. Particularly given that the calmest and most reasonable seeming answer is neutrality on this poll: "Well, it depends on the tax and the government.", as this is not silly, overblown, or anything like that, but I don't really care, as I think most people are going to pick the side that they agree most in.


Umm...... honestly, that rant merely confirmed the hypothesis I had been holding. I don't think the problem is the poll. I don't think the problem is that I am trying to deceive or misdirect people either. I think the issue is that you have a very strongly expressed ideology that impacts how you view the world to a high extent. I mean, that kind of rant isn't something you'd give if this was all about a phrasing issue, but rather it is more of an ideological issue. And I am not just deriving this only from this thread, but past threads, you consistently show strong ideological biases. Probably significantly stronger than my own, and I don't mean in direction, but rather in how they affect your perspective.

In any case, your rant has limited relevancy to the matter at hand. I mean, if I felt like it, I could engage in any number of other rants: "I have a right to keep my income and no government can tell me what to do with it", "for-profit is better than the bureaucrats", "the best society should really be a mix of for-profit and governmental actions", "You are absolutely right, and I can't see why these right-wing corporatists want to oppose universal health-care", "we really need a true socialist society to maximize the welfare of all people rather than just the wealthy", "government is by nature corrupt, as are businesses, therefore we need a new system that removes both government and business and truly works for people and promotes liberty", "government is good, but only the RIGHT kind of government", etc.... But, really, I don't care about getting into your argument on "what kind of world I want", particularly given that this is just a thread about tax evasion, not about a broader issue.