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What is your opinion of history?

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Orwell
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09 Apr 2010, 1:29 pm

Avarice wrote:
Orwell wrote:
"History is bunk."-Henry Ford

In all seriousness, I am a history major and history is very important for understanding our cultural backgrounds and how we arrived at where we are today.


And why is that important? (Interested in a History majors opinion on that.)

It gives us insight into how and why our societies developed as they did, and interesting parallels can be drawn that can inform our present actions.


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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Apr 2010, 2:32 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
phil777 wrote:
Reckon it was in a game that it said: "Those who don't look back don't deserve a future." I think it was Wild ARMS 2. <.< I find this interesting.


Similar to, "if you don't learn from the mistakes of the past, then you will repeat them".


Not necessarily. You don't have to know the past in order to have an original idea. As a matter of fact, most originality occurs amongst people whose brains have not been conditioned to past assumptions.


Originality says nothing about the intelligence of the idea or plan. Coming up with an original strategy without any reference to historical warfare tends to produce originally stupid strategies for other people to learn from when you become history.


And originality creates departures from old accepted ideas that have tied those trained and subjugated by false assumptions of the establishment that is submerged in history. If you don't understand that you have no concept of how progress is made.


No, I do have a concept of how progress is made you insulting parasite of forums, basically "out with the old, in with the new!" "newer is better" and all so many marketing ploys made to sell junk during times past when technology progressed a bit faster then today, during the early through mid 1900's.

Now as to correct your lack of comprehension of what I wrote, it is not that originality is undesirable, but that if you don't know the past or make reference to the past, learning from the mistakes and successes of those before you, then you are more likely to repeat the mistakes of those before you. New inventions allow for new specific uses, but even novel combinations of components can be understood by analogy to earlier things. Tanks warfare can be considered similar to chariot warfare. Sniping and other ranged combat to archery and other ranged personal combat using older technology. Cannon usage in comparison to catapult usage, etcera. Some things are new, such as air planes. But with the use of airplanes we can understand an analogy to the, as of yet still sci-fi, space fighters. Navel vessels can be analogous to fictional starships such as the Enterprise. The space shuttle can be analogous to a hybrid of a firecracker and a schoolbus. And so on and so forth.



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09 Apr 2010, 2:36 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
History does not exist.

The past does not exist.


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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Apr 2010, 2:41 pm

greenblue wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
History does not exist.

The past does not exist.


Every moment of the present is ex nihilo?



Descartes
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09 Apr 2010, 5:22 pm

I enjoy History. Some of my favorite historical topics include Renaissance-era Europe and the United States in the 20th century.



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09 Apr 2010, 6:57 pm

I think it's rubbish and that it should never have been allowed to happen.


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Sand
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09 Apr 2010, 7:08 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
phil777 wrote:
Reckon it was in a game that it said: "Those who don't look back don't deserve a future." I think it was Wild ARMS 2. <.< I find this interesting.


Similar to, "if you don't learn from the mistakes of the past, then you will repeat them".


Not necessarily. You don't have to know the past in order to have an original idea. As a matter of fact, most originality occurs amongst people whose brains have not been conditioned to past assumptions.


Originality says nothing about the intelligence of the idea or plan. Coming up with an original strategy without any reference to historical warfare tends to produce originally stupid strategies for other people to learn from when you become history.


And originality creates departures from old accepted ideas that have tied those trained and subjugated by false assumptions of the establishment that is submerged in history. If you don't understand that you have no concept of how progress is made.


No, I do have a concept of how progress is made you insulting parasite of forums, basically "out with the old, in with the new!" "newer is better" and all so many marketing ploys made to sell junk during times past when technology progressed a bit faster then today, during the early through mid 1900's.

Now as to correct your lack of comprehension of what I wrote, it is not that originality is undesirable, but that if you don't know the past or make reference to the past, learning from the mistakes and successes of those before you, then you are more likely to repeat the mistakes of those before you. New inventions allow for new specific uses, but even novel combinations of components can be understood by analogy to earlier things. Tanks warfare can be considered similar to chariot warfare. Sniping and other ranged combat to archery and other ranged personal combat using older technology. Cannon usage in comparison to catapult usage, etcera. Some things are new, such as air planes. But with the use of airplanes we can understand an analogy to the, as of yet still sci-fi, space fighters. Navel vessels can be analogous to fictional starships such as the Enterprise. The space shuttle can be analogous to a hybrid of a firecracker and a schoolbus. And so on and so forth.


Sorry, you missed the point entirely.



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09 Apr 2010, 7:11 pm

Quote:
What is your opinion of history?


Well, it's awfully bloody that's for sure...



Sand
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09 Apr 2010, 7:45 pm

There is no such thing as history written to cover all aspects of human activity with no partisan point of view. Its all directed in one way or another to favor particular aspects and ignore others. So the lessons learned are always questionable.



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09 Apr 2010, 7:48 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtgaGBsx_ew[/youtube]



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09 Apr 2010, 8:04 pm

I appreciate that 3-D graphics can now be employed as part of the history lesson -- never had that option when I was growing up!! !


;- )



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10 Apr 2010, 12:11 am

"don't need to see where I'm going, just need to see where I been" -Toe-Mater...;)


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10 Apr 2010, 2:12 am

Well Sand, i think we talked about how progress, in the way the western mind conceives it, implies that there is an infinite amount of ressources to fuel it. We do know that is not the case and that most ressources are finite. =/

I would also like to orient your attention regarding how history books regarding the creation of Israel are called anti-semitic because they denounce what the colonists have done (that is, killing and expropriating palestinians).



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10 Apr 2010, 3:08 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
times past when technology progressed a bit faster then today, during the early through mid 1900's.


No technology progresses faster now than in the past. While there were some important paradigm shifts in the early 1900s, refining of technology is progress as well. Look at the array of media available to artists for example. Prior to 1900 you had paint, pencil, casting, chisel and knife. Nowadays we also have light(pixels, fibers, LED), recorded sound, plastic, many more metals, even a type of clay called precious metal clay. Others too, I am sure.

Most of these have only appeared in the last 40 years. The fiber optics and LEDs are a good example of a paradigm shift in a utilitarian victorian invention(electric light). What was merely a tool is now used for art.

If you'll kindly look at http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page you'll see a shift away from factory automation back to individual craftsmanship(while retaining the benefits of industrialization). http://www.arduino.cc/ is another example allowing common people to craft complicated digital devices without needing tons of education.

These are very important things, because when the first cars were made, average people could not make them any more than they can today. And yet, I have seen a reprap type machine that was constructing buildings. Building a vehicle is now closer to the means of an average person than ever before, and thats more progress than happened in 1900.


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Sand
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10 Apr 2010, 5:45 am

Fuzzy wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
times past when technology progressed a bit faster then today, during the early through mid 1900's.


No technology progresses faster now than in the past. While there were some important paradigm shifts in the early 1900s, refining of technology is progress as well. Look at the array of media available to artists for example. Prior to 1900 you had paint, pencil, casting, chisel and knife. Nowadays we also have light(pixels, fibers, LED), recorded sound, plastic, many more metals, even a type of clay called precious metal clay. Others too, I am sure.

Most of these have only appeared in the last 40 years. The fiber optics and LEDs are a good example of a paradigm shift in a utilitarian victorian invention(electric light). What was merely a tool is now used for art.

If you'll kindly look at http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page you'll see a shift away from factory automation back to individual craftsmanship(while retaining the benefits of industrialization). http://www.arduino.cc/ is another example allowing common people to craft complicated digital devices without needing tons of education.

These are very important things, because when the first cars were made, average people could not make them any more than they can today. And yet, I have seen a reprap type machine that was constructing buildings. Building a vehicle is now closer to the means of an average person than ever before, and thats more progress than happened in 1900.


Not to mention totally new fields such as genetic engineering, nuclear science and engineering, robotics, astrophysics, electronics, information technology, space technology, nanotechnology etc.



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10 Apr 2010, 8:25 am

Sand wrote:
Not to mention totally new fields such as genetic engineering, nuclear science and engineering, robotics, astrophysics, electronics, information technology, space technology, nanotechnology etc.


Right you are.

As well, there are emergent systems for thinking which carry us further. An examination of the python programming language in comparison to old computer punch cards makes it apparent that ease of use(also speed and error detection) in computing is opening doors to average people doing things that used to be quite technical.

It is steps like this that advance humanity. These things accelerate the rate of development because you start massing people in the thinking areas of society. In the past it was necessary for most people to engage in menial tasks. They had no time or energy to think and invent.

Keet, I am sure many of the things you are learning is school allow you to frame ideas in increasingly concise terms. I'm betting that many of these things did not exist not so long ago. Do you and your fiancée have trouble discussing these ideas with your respective parents? That is the widening gulf of advancement, and they likely had a much easier time communicating ideas with their own parents.

The gulf is widening and advancement is accelerating.


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