13 year old Yemeni girl dies after marriage consummation

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The place is Muslim, and it's also really poor. And people are allowed to marry 13 year old girls. So yes, it is very much a s**thole, and it is very much unlike, say, America.



LOL at the article. Did YOU read it all the way?



Hahaha.



The Qur'an says:



Oink.



Yeah. The custom called Sharia Law, which heavily relies on teachings from the Qur'an. With teachings like that, and Islam's insistence on literal interpretation of everything written a thousand years ago, don't be surprised when many devout, religious Muslims are doing just that - taking it literally.

But you get on an otherwise benign internet forum and act like a two-year-old throwing a tantrum. You're quite an a**hole, yourself.

Well yeah it kinda is an Islamic tradition as Muhammad married a six year old and had sex with her when she was nine.

You are an ignorant person. That has got nothing to do with Shariah. As I said, if it did have anything to do with it, every Muslim would be practicing it no matter which part of the world they come from. Those are practices born from tribalism, and not the faith. If you don't want to believe that then that's your problem.

Last edited by i_wanna_blue on 12 Apr 2010, 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think you misunderstand, monsterland. John Lennon said nothing about slavery, he said 'n****r', because in that era that is who did the service level jobs in the world. Later he could have said "Mexicans" or even later "Dominicans" or "Guatemalans" When talking to British people they would say "Pakis" (for Pakistanis).

So the idea is not slavery. The idea is who does the grunt work on a day to day basis, cleans the toilets, washes the socks, mows the lawn and runs that @#$%@ leaf blower.

Merle

If John Lennon was wrong, explain how women (and even little girls -.- ) worldwide still sell their bodies for sexual favors whereas males who do so are few?

Also, the lowered salary most of them fetch for being a female is a persistent prejudice against them, and does not offer them as much economic freedom as a male would.

The concept of slavery is rather large you know. <.< Just having a hold on someone's life would be enough to qualify (but that's my own opinion).

This is a plight about an under-age child who died. Forced under-age marriages are common in the third world, particularly here in India. The gender is a parallel issue, although more (if not equally) important.

Young boys are also forced into marriage in India, as soon as they turn 7 years old.

Please don't confuse the plight of children with John Lennon's views on gender equality. =/

I know about tribalism, I grew up in Kansas that was near enough to have relatives in the Ozarks where 12 and 13 year old girls were wedded and bedded (old enough to bleed, old enough to breed was the mantra. Those hillbillies would have bristled and challenged your life if you thought their religion was anything but Christian. Child abuse knows no specific religion or area, it is simply because people CAN abuse them that it happens.

Merle

He just quoted a passage from the Qur'an that looks to allow rape in marriage, Are you going to ignore that or address it? Or are you going to repeat yourself again and hope he agrees with you this time without you voiding his arguments.

Exodus [21:7-8] "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do."

There's a few more here too; http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/bible.html.

There's this one too; John 8:7.

You see you always assume the worst. No Islam doesn't allow rape in marriage. You just read it that way because you want Islam to be a religion with flaws. I did not reply to his quote, as I felt I needed to locate the quote and to understand the meaning behind it. I did this last night, and I felt i would only respond if it was necessary. So here it is....

I don't understand how you can interpret the verse to allow rape.

4:34 If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of Allah], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. Allah is most high and great.

How does that translate to rape? It's actually telling you to stay away from your wife. Again you just want to make flaws when there are none.

This is what an English Quran, I have at home states. I'm not making this up.




(1) In case of family jars four steps are mentioned, to be taken in that order:
a) perhaps verbal advice or admonition may be sufficient
b) if not, sex relations may be suspended
c) if this is not sufficient, some slight physical correction may be administered.
But Imam Shafi considers this inadvisable, though permissible, and all authorities are unanimous in deprecating any sort of cruelty, even of the nagging kind.
d) If all this fails, a family council is recommended.


Firstly these steps are only allowed if disloyalty ill conduct from the wives part occurs. Other than that you have no right to enforce any of the above. If you do so, it is going against Shariah.

When you read monsterlands quote it seems as if you firstly admonish, deny sexual intercourse and hit your wive. This is not true. You first take on the first step, if that doesn't work then the second step, and only as a last resort, without cruelty, the third step. But as you can see, this is frowned upon anyway.


So no the verse does not imply rape. And I spoke to someone regarding this particular subject, and it goes against Shariah law to force any female into marriage. If the female is not allowed to say no, and is forced into marriage by her father or mother, they become oppressors and if the husband knows that a female does not want to marry him, he becomes an oppressor too. To be an oppressor is a great sin. There you go, please don't say that I don't take on any issues because I do.

Another thing is that if cruelty is shown towards a female it is wrong and has nothing to do with the faith. Men are regarded as the protectors of women. If they feel this implies oppressing women, than they are going against the Shariah. People have flaws, not the religion. And as I said before this is custom, not religion. Because these terrible acts on young women only occur in certain areas. If it was shariah law to force women of any kind into any kind of submission, these incidents would number millions. When I read about the article it was the first time I had ever heard of this type of practice.

In certain parts of Africa tribalism is enjoined with Christianity. Some people are Christian but still visit a witch doctor. But this does not happen in America or Europe. So for me to point a finger at Christianity is wrong because Christianity in it's core is against witchcraft. Same as above, tribalism has got nothing to do with Islam. In Indian culture arranged marriage is still enforced, but it has nothing to do with Islam. You have to see the difference.

Islam is not a religion of Arabs from the Middle East. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, from every corner of the world. So you can't say that if someone in the Middle East is cruel it translates to all 1 billion Muslims.

@i_wanna_blue: your posts are possibly the biggest pile of evasion, wordplay and strawmen I've seen on a singlepage. I never said that 1 billion Muslims were beating their wives. However the evidence of this being an incident related to Islam, meaning Qur'an, meaning Sharia, is right there in the article - the place has a goddamn law letting people marry 13 year old girls, which they failed to overturn because to do so would be "Un-Islamic"...

Like many other things such as reason, logic, and fact, you ignore them in favor of politically correct garbage meant to protect what is currently the most violent religion in the world, responsible for the largest number of armed conflicts in the world.

While the holy books of other religions like Christianity may have vile and brutal things in them... the Bible doesn't have masterstrokes like this, though:

You see, the problem with Islam is that it hasn't progressed over time. While there's parts of the Bible that suggests stoning of women, our of all major religions, only Muslims actually stone people and perform honor killings in 21st century... the same way they did in the 7th century.

...

Your vilifying of America and its "cities filled with crime" is so comical, it reminds me of propaganda caricatures I saw on the backs of Soviet magazines. It's hysterical. Please keep on going, it's making me perversely nostalgic.

Holy s**t, this is your defense? It's ok to slightly beat your wife up?



but licensed to hit them if they feel like it? (after all the other steps).

Last edited by Lene on 12 Apr 2010, 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Actually, America is responsible for the most conflicts in the world, as they have bombed 50 countries since wwII.



It is unislamic to force anyone into marriage. Because certain ignorant people do so, does not make it law.

You don't care about this poor girl, all you care about is vilifying Muslims. Just your tone shows that you feel that "poor" people are inferior and that you being a rich white man makes you superior. Your countries rate of violence and rape to women far outweighs any Muslim country.

And yes you can quote the Quran to support your point. But there are also many quotes which support being good to all people. You just have to look for them, just as you looked for the above.




And how is that? The person above asked me counter that quote, and I did. Firstly that quote has nothing to do with forcing 13 year olds to get married.

Last edited by i_wanna_blue on 12 Apr 2010, 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

So what people in western countries don't beat up their wives? And defense against what? What happened to this 13 year old girl, has nothing to do with the quote. .

Last edited by i_wanna_blue on 12 Apr 2010, 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

This isn't about the West, this is about the particular view of your religion that you have. Domestic violence happens, yes. But that doesn't mean we should condone it, and most people in society do not.

I was referring to defense against what people were saying about Islam being backward. I presumed that like Christians and the Bible, you took the Qu'ran in context and discarded or reinterpreted passages that did not fit with current views human rights, thus the text referring to rape may have been appropriate in the past, but not in the current day and age. Most of the Muslims I know follow this thinking, but clearly your views are different .

I do not believe the society I live in is perfect, but one thing I do like about it is that we revise our rules over time to increase human rights. Our laws are originally based on the 10 commandments in the Bible, but have been adapted over time as society began to realise that women and slaves etc. should have the same rights as anyone else.

Last edited by Lene on 12 Apr 2010, 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.