Do you think this pro-israel rally is hateful?

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Lets keep things balanced here lol.

Was it sanctioned by the government? I know there were government elected people on board but I didn't think it was a government position but rather a personal act of charity. Just like Cynthia McKinney's act wasn't on behalf of the US government but on her own behalf. There were also numerous journalists and professors on board as well (and not just from Turkey).

As far as acquiescing to the blockade, I don't think the point was to acquiesce. I also don't think the situation is as simplistic as good guys vs bad guys as it is being made out to be (on either side). There is, however, a problem with lethal force being used against non-lethally armed people. There's also a problem acting like as if this were planned when most of the weapons that were used by the flotilla group were of an improvised nature. They knew the flotilla was coming a month in advance...why the gas? For that matter, why the whole show that they put on? It seems a little odd and like both sides were looking to put on a show for the people and, well, we know what the body count is.

Also...is it just me or are most of the weapons found/used by the flotilla people, in general, more of an improvised nature? Chains, poles, and knives are items that could easily just be found on any boat. The slingshot is the only out of place item.

As far as the implication of making a show of it: how is it that it has to be a show? How is it not that these people do not trust all the necessary goods getting to the Gazans via the Israeli government? Israel hasn't exactly been shown to be a trustworthy source when it comes to how they treat the Gazans.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGlnsIW3zJk[/youtube]


Seems legit.




http://www.youtube.com/user/1worldcitiz ... Ac3hhxEql4

^His youtube site. Seems he loves his sea life and was opposed to the war in Iraq.

A most difficult government topic

Upholding democracy in the Middle East is very different from doing so in a peaceful country like Canada, or even in time in war. The US sanctioned the nuclear bombings in Japan and the saturation bombings of civilians in nazi Germany in World War Two.

Hindsight is 20/20 vision. In retrospect we can see where mistakes were made, very costly ones. Many have said that President Truman was a mass murderer because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Military killings (like on the Gaza aid ship) must be dealt with. In retrospect, we can see they were a grave error, and can result in diplomatic repercussions. Lack of trust has forced Israel to act heavy handedly here. The Turkish aid ship must have somehow raised red flags. (Israeli security is very tight--just look at how their airports operate.)

As I mentioned in another post, aid to Gaza must involve various governments, and not be left to "peace" groups whose agenda is far from peaceful, and who are not trusted by Israel. (And these so-called peace groups condemn only Israel, and not other countries who actually violate human rights such as Sudan, Iran, and North Korea, according to journalist Peter Worthington.) Other posters in this forum and in different ones here at WP have mentioned that aid ships can dock at Ashdod and be inspected before reaching Gaza. Trusted government-initiated aid from the US, Canada and Europe would not be mistreated as they maintain diplomatic relations with Israel.

More eviction notices go through today in the Jordan Valley.

Do you think this helps the peace process any?


http://www.imemc.org/article/58881

"Five Palestinian families in the Jordan Valley, in the eastern part of the West Bank, received eviction orders from the Israeli military on Sunday, just days after Israeli settlers set up an illegal outpost on the families' land and took over a water well in the area. The eviction orders told the families to vacate their homes and land within ten days so that Israeli troops could occupy it."

That looks like a really unbiased site... [/sarcasm]

And if I went by your "unbiased" sites, you'd never know there were such evictions or settlements going on other than brief mentions.

Probably because the only "unbiased" site that I go to with any regularity is CMI and this type of news is out of their scope. However, if they were to do a report about it, they'd go point by point addressing details swept under the rug by your "unbiased" sites. But aside from a conjectural battle of websites, why did these five Palestinian families receive eviction notices and what is the other activity in the area with either military or jihadi group movements?

It is very hateful. What a shame it is that people choose to worship a country.

It's even worse to worship a doctrine and sacrifice people for it, namely...


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiO_c5-6_Hw[/youtube]

Liebensraum topic

The nazis worshipped a fuhrer (hitler), a doctrine nazism(blood) and a country(soil).

First they got their fuhrer. Next they started getting rid of life not worthy of life (people with special needs) and next was going to war for more living space (liebensraum) and to destroy the Jewish People. This is more than a shame--it was twelve years of tragedy, and mass murder horror, graphically shown in that Goebbels/Streicher inspired propaganda video depicting special needs people as life that should be eliminated, setting the tone for the Final Solution, and it was made well before World War Two.

It is a most foolish/asinine gesture to equate Israel with nazi germany. Do not go there.

I'm not going there at all. I'm headed in the opposite direction.

Dear Keet... topic

I was referring to Xenon13, and his comment embedded with yours. Sorry for any confusion.

You were probably not 100% serious here - but that's how it is.
I'm the last one to defend Israel's actions - as an Israeli - but yes, most Israelis always feel the victim. Are they wrong? Of course. Still, it's easy for you to judge. Our people have been through so many disasters and racial abuses, that most Israelis don't trust other nations. It is sad, I know. And I don't agree with this paranoia. I fight it within Israel. But that's how it is, and unless you understand it, you can't argue with Israel supporters. Just as Israel supporters can't argue with Palestine supporters, when they can't see their point of view.

Truth is - everyone's blind to one another. Again, I'm not justifying Israel's actions. I think it was disrespectful for the soldiers themselves, to send them to be lynched with colour rifles, or whatever you call it in English. I'm considered radical in Israel, because I'm an anarchist, and believe everyone should live wherever they want, and that's it. But I understand where this Jewish paranoia comes from, because I live in a Jewish family, and have a Jewish history.

Just as much as Palestinians don't want to kill Jews, but just to live in peace in their land, Israelis don't want to kill Arabs, but are just afraid, because of our history. Yes, politicians deceive the public. But it's easy for you to say this when you live far away, and don't realise what it means to be Jewish. We just expect suffering. It's hard to explain to people from outside, but that's how it is.

And again - I DON'T support Israel's actions. I voted for the only Jewish-Arab party in the Knesset.

This is balance:
[img][800:1125]http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/pics/gushlogo.gif[/img]
f**k it, nothing personal here, just so sick of people justifying Israel's actions, or Palestinian leadership's actions, when living abroad.
You are just like the generals themselves, playing in a strategy game. Truth is, everyone suffers here. Until we understand it, there is no hope for us.

I don't know if anyone of you is Jewish/Arab, but I'm just so sick of people "taking a side" here, like my life is some kind of a computer game. I just want peace and quiet, with my Arab and Jewish friends, who don't give a f**k about governments and regimes.

As my friends says - it's not called "Israel", and not "Palestine" - it is called "the universe". It belongs to everyone who wants to live here. Too bad not all of those share the same views as I do.

I was being hyperbolic but it's something I've observed that some people try to keep in the warm part of the subconscious in Jewish people...like as if it's wanted to be stored fresh for tapping into. "You ARE a victim. They ARE after you. They all HATE you because you're different." It's not all the time, it's not everywhere and I'm fairly certain most Jewish people don't live thinking it...but it's kept there with the right stories and subjects. Kinda like the missing white woman/girl syndrome; which, is always a good way to stir up controversy here against drugs or minorities or the internet. I kinda have to wonder if maybe it fuels the media like horror movies...people watch it because they want to be scared. It sells papers/ad time so it ends up making up more and more of the news and the tone of the news.

It's just hard to feel as sympathetic for that paranoia when the people on the other side are more recently and more often (in recent history) the victim in the social wheel of humanity*.


*Along with blacks who can't seem to catch a break at any time...which is why there's a rich history between Jewish people and black people here, especially in the music business.