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Awesomelyglorious
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20 Jul 2010, 11:16 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If we are going to consider that a designer exists and work within that paradigm, then the existence of a soul or spirit as part of the human existence would not be out of line. If we are going to consider the possibility of a designer but only from the paradigm that all that exists is material then the argument is circular.

So, you are saying that the soul interprets things????

'keet, that's kind of ridiculous. First off, we have good evidence from experiments such as the Libet experiment that people make decisions before they are conscious of the fact that they have made a decision, which kind of brings great doubt on the "soul" hypothesis. Heck, internal psychological discontinuity brings up huge questions on souls. Let's just take multiple personality disorder, which personality is actually the person? How about if we split the brain by cutting the corpus callosium, and thus have a right and a left brain that can't communicate very well. The left says it is an atheist, the right says it believes in a god, what does the person believe? What the right believes, or what the left believes? Certainly this is an important question, but we can't identify a unified being to give us an answer on the matter. How about this, a person has blindsight, so they are unconsciously receiving information but they can't consciously process it, is this information somehow kept from the soul? How could that be? If the brain has the information, then shouldn't it be that the soul has the very same information? But it doesn't, how come? Can you give a sensible and meaningful answer to this? How come most interpretation is unconscious and a difficult cognitive process if the soul does it all? How come neurologists doing research on mental interpretation can actually do research if some sort of mysterious substance is really responsible for all of this? How come the "soul" has standard interpretation issues across persons if it is a magical substance?

Somehow I think your answer is a piece of s**t and an obvious one at that. I mean, even if we say "non-material forces exist", the fact is that material forces explain enough at this point where any invocation you use will be nonsense.



Awesomelyglorious
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20 Jul 2010, 11:18 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
KaiG wrote:
What about the fact that we partly use the same tube for ingesting and for breathing? That's ridiculous.


Having both the mouth and nose linked to the trachea is a bad design? Would you prefer to only have your nose connected to your trachea and only have your mouth connected to your esophagus? What would be the cost of that in terms of how often people would die of a runny nose as compared to how often people currently die of swallowing food the wrong way?

Obviously our noses would work differently if the matter were different in that manner.



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20 Jul 2010, 11:22 pm

LKL wrote:
I like that idea - and there's even a precedent:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... enes-.html


I wouldn't entirely call it a precedent...but it does mean that we could potentially have a sequence laid out for installing photosynthesis, so to speak.


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Orwell
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20 Jul 2010, 11:22 pm

LKL wrote:
wrt vitamin C, why the hell not just let humans synthesize it just like everything else does? Did some desiging god want all those sailors to lose all their teeth and/or die greusome deaths?

Obviously a result of the Fall. A cruel irony: eat some fruit you weren't supposed to once, and from now on you have to eat fruit regularly or your teeth fall out.

OK, sarcasm aside, the Fall is usually the standard creationist response to any real or perceived flaws in human body design. I'm not sure how (or if) any creationists deal with the issue of the human body plan being dramatically re-done after the six literal days of creation were already over.


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20 Jul 2010, 11:25 pm

skafather84 wrote:
I've gotta complain. I think our body design would have been better with photosynthesis system built in. It would have helped eliminate the obesity problem.

/it's the first body mod I'll get if/when genetic body modification is possible...REALLY go green. :D

Dunno, obesity would suddenly be much more of an issue in tropical and sub-tropical regions. Not so much in temperate zones.


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Awesomelyglorious
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20 Jul 2010, 11:25 pm

Orwell wrote:
LKL wrote:
wrt vitamin C, why the hell not just let humans synthesize it just like everything else does? Did some desiging god want all those sailors to lose all their teeth and/or die greusome deaths?

Obviously a result of the Fall. A cruel irony: eat some fruit you weren't supposed to once, and from now on you have to eat fruit regularly or your teeth fall out.

OK, sarcasm aside, the Fall is usually the standard creationist response to any real or perceived flaws in human body design. I'm not sure how (or if) any creationists deal with the issue of the human body plan being dramatically re-done after the six literal days of creation were already over.

Is the reason that they continually use the Fall as an excuse for their poorly thought-out ideas a result of the Fall?



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20 Jul 2010, 11:27 pm

Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
I've gotta complain. I think our body design would have been better with photosynthesis system built in. It would have helped eliminate the obesity problem.

/it's the first body mod I'll get if/when genetic body modification is possible...REALLY go green. :D

Dunno, obesity would suddenly be much more of an issue in tropical and sub-tropical regions. Not so much in temperate zones.


Depends on how much energy is produced and how energy is stored in response. To be honest, I'm not sure a photosynthesis system would be enough on its own to power a human body.


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21 Jul 2010, 12:08 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Your argument about headaches relies on pain being only to tell when something is wrong as well as your own ability to determine that there is nothing wrong causing your headaches.

Well, here's the thing, when I have a headache, the headache itself tells me nothing about what's wrong with me. It is just there, staying it for the whole afternoon/night until I a) Get an aspirin or b) wait for the whole day to pass.

Maybe it is the body's way to tell me I should get more aspirin?

But really: puberty, nuff said.


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21 Jul 2010, 12:15 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
KaiG wrote:
What about the fact that we partly use the same tube for ingesting and for breathing? That's ridiculous.


Having both the mouth and nose linked to the trachea is a bad design? Would you prefer to only have your nose connected to your trachea and only have your mouth connected to your esophagus? What would be the cost of that in terms of how often people would die of a runny nose as compared to how often people currently die of swallowing food the wrong way?
Why not just add an extra backup tube where air could go? It could be parallel to the trachea, and be connected to ears. Air has to enter ears anyway...

Quote:
I've gotta complain. I think our body design would have been better with photosynthesis system built in. It would have helped eliminate the obesity problem.
I don't think it would have helped against obesity, but it would really allow humans to survive some extra time during food shortages, just get some sun!

--

Why is human smell unpleasant for humans? I mean, really?


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21 Jul 2010, 12:15 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Your argument about headaches relies on pain being only to tell when something is wrong as well as your own ability to determine that there is nothing wrong causing your headaches.

Well, here's the thing, when I have a headache, the headache itself tells me nothing about what's wrong with me. It is just there, staying it for the whole afternoon/night until I a) Get an aspirin or b) wait for the whole day to pass.

Maybe it is the body's way to tell me I should get more aspirin?

But really: puberty, nuff said.


Well, I doubt this is the case although it may as well be: along the lines with your rhetorical question of. "Maybe it is the body's way to tell me I should get more aspirin?" it may be similar to this that with your ability to reason that you either need to seek out the cause of the headache or, if known already, a remedy. So, it could be, in a way, a method to provide impetus for seeking out knowledge. Of course, there are those people who would rather k'vetch than understand... :P



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21 Jul 2010, 12:17 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
Why is human smell unpleasant for humans? I mean, really?


Referring to armpits? That's not a smell we produce, but a smell a bacteria produces. Showering occasionally helps.



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21 Jul 2010, 12:18 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If we are going to consider that a designer exists and work within that paradigm, then the existence of a soul or spirit as part of the human existence would not be out of line. If we are going to consider the possibility of a designer but only from the paradigm that all that exists is material then the argument is circular.

Did you just imply that accepting ID would require us to go to the unscientific world and accept magic as well for it to make sense?


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21 Jul 2010, 12:24 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If we are going to consider that a designer exists and work within that paradigm, then the existence of a soul or spirit as part of the human existence would not be out of line. If we are going to consider the possibility of a designer but only from the paradigm that all that exists is material then the argument is circular.

Did you just imply that accepting ID would require us to go to the unscientific world and accept magic as well for it to make sense?


No, I didn't imply that. However, if one is to argue regarding the philosophy of the nature of the intellect while using only one philosophy's terminology and definitions, then the conclusion is determined in the definitions. This is also known as "stacking the deck."



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21 Jul 2010, 1:06 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Referring to armpits? That's not a smell we produce, but a smell a bacteria produces. Showering occasionally helps.

Why an intelligent designer would "design" and create bacteria, which purpose could they possibly have along with the rest of microorganisms in relation to the original pre-fall paradise?


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21 Jul 2010, 1:10 am

Orwell wrote:
I'm not sure how (or if) any creationists deal with the issue of the human body plan being dramatically re-done after the six literal days of creation were already over.

Most likely, a supernatural event (the curse of humanity) caused by the first sin.


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21 Jul 2010, 1:18 am

So the 'fall' also reduced the human appendix from a functional fermentation chamber to an open-ended, worm-sized sack that occasionally causes death, as well? Oh, irony: we are compelled by the fall to consume fruit and vegetables, but at the same time lost the ability to gain nutrients from the fiber therin.