Soros backed group tries to paint Beck as anti-semite again

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marshall
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28 Jan 2011, 3:05 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

marshall wrote:

Yes. Let your anti-liberal prejudice do your thinking for you. His supposed "Nazi collaboration" (where he was forced to confiscate property from a family who had fled) was one single event that doesn't represent an entire year of a boys life.

How about you get over your hatred of Conservatives already.

I think my hate/fear is justified considering the irrational demagogic nature of the modern conservative movement. Irrational demagoguery generally leads to tyranny. It's happened many times throughout history. I've also had the misfortune to witness the unabashed hatred of right-wing teabagger s**theads first hand. They view anyone who disagrees with them as the enemy they make themselves my enemy.

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marshall wrote:

Or do you think it is wrong that normal people might feel a sense of excitement/exhilaration in the presense of something dangerous or disastrous? You know there are people who chase tornadoes or hurricanes for the thrill? Do you think storm chasers do what they do because they feel glee at the fact that people lose their homes and/or die in storms?

We're not talking about the 14 year old, we're talking about the man decades later looking back on it and feeling no guilt.

marshall wrote:

You also have to consider the fact that he was largely isolated from the rest of the Jewish community (possibly for his own safety). He had mostly Christian friends didn't personally know the other Jewish families living in his area. Another thing is the true horror of the Nazi program (that Jews and other ethnic minorities were being exterminated by the millions) was not widely known until after the war. At the time people were very afraid of the Nazis, but they were not aware that people were being sent to be killed. The reality turned out to be beyond anyone's worst imagination. Despite the danger he was in, Soros was actually pretty insulated from what was happening.

Again this isn't about the 14 year old boy, this is about the man decades later not feeling any guilt over it.

This is one of those "when are you going to stop beating your wife" type of arguments. You have not demonstrated that he has anything rational to feel guilty about.

Last edited by marshall on 28 Jan 2011, 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

skafather84
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28 Jan 2011, 3:06 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Again this isn't about the 14 year old boy, this is about the man decades later not feeling any guilt over it.

And what gives you any right to judge what he's been through and determine what reaction is appropriate? You don't even seem to really know what he did considering how you word it and try to portray it.

Quit thinking like everything is a TV show.

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ikorack
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28 Jan 2011, 3:08 pm

To be fair neither of you knows exactly what he's done in those years.

Inuyasha
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28 Jan 2011, 3:10 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Again this isn't about the 14 year old boy, this is about the man decades later not feeling any guilt over it.

I'm not talking about the 14 year old boy, I'm talking about the 80+ year old man. How anyone could not feel guilt (even if it is survivor's guilt) over it, I'll never know.

skafather84 wrote:

Quit thinking like everything is a TV show.

Quit thinking that Conservatives are evil people or stupid people.

marshall
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28 Jan 2011, 3:20 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Again this isn't about the 14 year old boy, this is about the man decades later not feeling any guilt over it.

I'm not talking about the 14 year old boy, I'm talking about the 80+ year old man. How anyone could not feel guilt (even if it is survivor's guilt) over it, I'll never know.

You'll never know because you can't possibly live in someone else's shoes. Since when is not expressing an irrational survivor's guilt a sign that someone is evil?

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skafather84 wrote:

Quit thinking like everything is a TV show.

Quit thinking that Conservatives are evil people or stupid people.

As soon as Glenn Beck et al. stop thinking that liberals are evil.

skafather84
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28 Jan 2011, 3:25 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Again this isn't about the 14 year old boy, this is about the man decades later not feeling any guilt over it.

I'm not talking about the 14 year old boy, I'm talking about the 80+ year old man. How anyone could not feel guilt (even if it is survivor's guilt) over it, I'll never know.

I'm not talking about the 14 year old boy either. I'm talking about a man who's lived a very long life after 14 and his coping mechanisms for it. How do you know him saying he feels no guilt isn't merely deflection (as a proud, accomplished man might do)? Maybe he doesn't feel guilty and it was fairly easy for him? Not everything was like how they portrayed it in the movies. It could have been as simple as he learns some Christian stuff and do what every other teenager was made to do at the time? Not everything was Schindler's List and Inglorious Basterds.

marshall
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28 Jan 2011, 3:39 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Again this isn't about the 14 year old boy, this is about the man decades later not feeling any guilt over it.

I'm not talking about the 14 year old boy, I'm talking about the 80+ year old man. How anyone could not feel guilt (even if it is survivor's guilt) over it, I'll never know.

Also, nobody figures that "do you feel any guilt" is a rather prying question. It's not something I'd expect everyone to feel comfortable answering. That said, he made the mistake of being too honest. He didn't provide the socially accepted answer. The truth is survivors guilt is not a universal phenomenon. It's typical pop-psychology, the crap you'd hear from "Dr. Phil". Not everyone experiences trauma the same way. You'd think someone subscribed to a forum for neurological deviants would know better.

ikorack
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28 Jan 2011, 3:41 pm

I thought they where criticizing his lack of guilt for what they view as the way he survived, not his actual survival?

skafather84
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28 Jan 2011, 3:48 pm

ikorack wrote:

I thought they where criticizing his lack of guilt for what they view as the way he survived, not his actual survival?

If he was honest about that, why should he feel guilt for doing what's basically a very minimally involving job? He wasn't hunting Jews or ratting out anyone. He didn't "send people to the ovens" as Glenn Beck has implied. Why should he feel guilty for surviving and not doing any direct harm to anyone other than theft that he had no choice in?

JNathanK
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28 Jan 2011, 3:53 pm

Rich people fund all sorts of things for their political agendas, including Fox News. Sorros donated about 1 million dollars to media matters, where God knows who is investing in Fox News, the channel that's sought to make him look like the devil incarnate to its viewers. Now corporations can pour in billions of dollars into all sorts of political causes, including those that relate to the Tea Party, and we don't even know who's behind it because of how corporate personhood is now being interpreted by the Supreme Court. About any heavily circulated political opinion has somebody's money behind it. That's thanks mainly to Newt Gingrich's lobbying efforts. Money is how most idea's get currency in the public, and if Conservitives can only see that from Sorros' side, they're really deluding their selves.

AceOfSpades
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28 Jan 2011, 3:59 pm

marshall wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

marshall wrote:

How about you get over your hatred of Conservatives already.

How about no. Drop the sense of entitlement and self righteousness, hatred isn't justified because you disagree. Looks like you're projecting yourself onto em when you say "They view anyone who disagrees with them as the enemy they make themselves my enemy.". Remember that PM you sent me? Think about the hypocrisy in that before you accuse right wingers of being hateful or violent. I sure as hell don't wanna hit you in the face with a shovel, I'd much rather shake my head.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 28 Jan 2011, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JNathanK
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28 Jan 2011, 4:00 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

I'm not talking about the 14 year old boy, I'm talking about the 80+ year old man. How anyone could not feel guilt (even if it is survivor's guilt) over it, I'll never know.

skafather84 wrote:

Quit thinking like everything is a TV show.

Quit thinking that Conservatives are evil people or stupid people.

That's all you seem to think about liberals and progressives.

ikorack
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28 Jan 2011, 4:03 pm

skafather84 wrote:

ikorack wrote:

I thought they where criticizing his lack of guilt for what they view as the way he survived, not his actual survival?

Maybe they don't feel theft of an oppressed peoples property abandoned or not is minimal involvement. They also might not believe that was his only role.(which would imply they don't believe Soros's statements on the matter)

skafather84
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28 Jan 2011, 4:24 pm

ikorack wrote:

Maybe they don't feel theft of an oppressed peoples property abandoned or not is minimal involvement.

*shrug* He was Jewish himself and survived by going with the flow when needed. I'm probably not the best to be discussing morals because I thought the old man in the whore house was one of the more clever characters in Catch 22.

skafather84
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28 Jan 2011, 4:27 pm

One of the exchanges in question:

Catch 22 wrote:

"They are going to kill you if you don't watch out, and I can see now that you are not going to watch out. Why don't you use some sense and try to be more like me? You might live to be a hundred and seven, too."

"Because it's better to die on one's feet than live on one's knees," Nately retorted with triumphant and lofty conviction. "I guess you've heard that saying before."

"Yes, I certainly have," mused the treacherous old man, smiling again. "But I'm afraid you have it backward. It is better to live on one's feet than die on one's knees. That is the way the saying goes."

"Are you sure?" Nately asked with sober confusion. "It seems to make more sense my way."

"No, it makes more sense my way. Ask your friends."

skafather84
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28 Jan 2011, 4:29 pm

Or for the movie version:

Catch 22 movie wrote:

Capt. Nately: Don't you have any principles?
Old man in whorehouse: Of course not!
Capt. Nately: No morality?
Old man in whorehouse: I'm a very moral man, and Italy is a very moral country. That's why we will certainly come out on top again if we succeed in being defeated.
Capt. Nately: You talk like a madman.
Old man in whorehouse: But I live like a sane one. I was a fascist when Mussolini was on top. Now that he has been deposed, I am anti-fascist. When the Germans were here, I was fanatically pro-German. Now I'm fanatically pro-American. You'll find no more loyal partisan in all of Italy than myself.
Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.
Capt. Nately: How do you know?
Old man in whorehouse: Because I am 107-years-old. How old are you?
Capt. Nately: I'll be 20 in January.
Old man in whorehouse: If you live.

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