Israel/Palestine, how to find out the truth??

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It's defending land that it stole from Arabs. That's what Dubya ignores. It's too late to drive the Israeli's into the sea now so they should accept their complete and utter overwhelming victory with a little good grace and stop building illegal settlements so we can reach a peaceful solution.

Last edited by jamieboy on 18 Mar 2011, 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

But the whole country must be punished for the actions of the few. Isn't that obvious?? Palestinians have no reason to swear blood vandettas against the Israelis and complacency to allow your neighbor to be a terrorist makes you, yourself, and your other neighbors terrorists.


In all seriousness, though, the Israeli people are much smarter than this and their government is more representative of a populist driven few rather than the rational people who see what actually goes on and wants peace rather than land grabs. I've seen many articles decrying the actions of the Israeli government from the Israeli media but too few want to heed the warnings and the advice because they get drawn in by the religious fanatics and their supporters who argue for response without thought of the consequences. The people shouldn't suffer terrorism but the Palestinian people shouldn't have to suffer constant rule by another government because of the actions of a few who believe they're fighting a resistance movement rather than simply causing more problems. It's a very complicated matter and I'd love to see it solved with both sides dissolved, all extremists on both sides locked up, and a new coalition government that represents both populations in power. And don't tell me most people there wouldn't want to have the same prosperity that the Israelis enjoy. Most people are sane enough to pick the better life for themselves...it's just that one wedge (religion) that keeps being driven between the two that keeps them apart.

Wrong, the land was under British Control and the British gave the Israelis the land for their country.

It's wasn't ours to give in the first place.

Actually it was, the British gained control of the land following the destruction of the Ottoman Empire in the aftermath of World War I.

Those were the days of Empire. Britain has about as much of a legitimate territorial claim to Palestine as the USA does to New Zealand.

So do you think it's an over-reach of post-war power to grant vast stretches of land to a foreign people and to kick out the native people?

Maybe we should have just cleared out Germany to be the new Israel instead if that were the case considering the Germans did the most horrific acts and would "deserve" it the most.

I'm not denying post-war power of the victor...I'm just wondering what the line is between functional control and abusive control.

Looks to me that the Palestinians are fighting with the wrong people, they should be demanding compensation from the UK +interest.

Or demand mediation from a similar group like the UN (of which, the UK holds a permanent position in the security council). But that hinges on Israel's willingness to follow UN mediation...which they haven't shown so far.

But back to my post which you may have missed (if you caught it, sorry for repeating):


So do you think it's an over-reach of post-war power to grant vast stretches of land to a foreign people and to kick out the native people?

Maybe we should have just cleared out Germany to be the new Israel instead if that were the case considering the Germans did the most horrific acts and would "deserve" it the most.

I'm not denying post-war power of the victor...I'm just wondering what the line is between functional control and abusive control.

Situation was the Israelis didn't want to be around the people that tried to wipe them off the face of the Earth, and the Europeans didn't want them around.

As far arbitration the UN has made it perfectly clear they cannot be trusted to be a neutral arbitrator.

Europeans weren't Israelis. They were Europeans.

My point is that Europe gave them that land out of shame and they didn't want to be reminded of the crimes they committed (or willfully ignored) towards the Jewish people.

I take your in favour or The USA paying reparations to Native Americans and Blacks then?

The problem with the Middle-east dispute is a ton of disinformation on both sides...as well as bad acts.

Jews and Muslims lived together in relative peace for many, many years. What changed this?

1. England promising THE SAME LAND to both Muslims and Zionists for support in WWII. Newly formed UN gave the land to the Zionists. While England was the bad actor here (making the same promise to both sides), it's the Jews who got the ire of the Muslim world for how the deal went down.

2. Immediately after being formed as a new nation, several Muslim nations attacked Israel and lost. That conflict resulted in the lawful taking of new territory (standing rule of international law...you start a fight and your victim fights back and takes your land...it becomes his by virtue of you starting the war and loosing). Loosing to the Jews is a point of contention to SOME Muslims, and they use it politically.

3. UN mistreatment of Muslim refugees. Many Muslims who were forced from their land by the initial war (and later conflicts) were herded into relocation camps, but never allowed to move out. There are places throughout the Muslim world these people could move to (and many want to), but the UN will not allow it. Anti-Israel groups use this fabricated hardship to say Israel is bad, but Israel is not forcing these people to stay in these camps. They are victims of political grandstanders.

4. In the ongoing conflict, both Muslims and Israeli interests have done some really bad things that are not defensible. Sadly, it's the extremists who run the show, so the moderate influences get no voice.

I think they deserve each other.
-Jake

the land was originally stolen from the Canaanites.

ruveyn