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PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 8:47 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


Hmmmm..... maybe because regardless of religion I feel that animals should be treated fairly. You essentially said that Atheists should not care about other living beings.


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Inuyasha
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27 Mar 2011, 8:52 pm

PatrickNeville wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


Hmmmm..... maybe because regardless of religion I feel that animals should be treated fairly. You essentially said that Atheists should not care about other living beings.


Why?



PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 8:59 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
PatrickNeville wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


Hmmmm..... maybe because regardless of religion I feel that animals should be treated fairly. You essentially said that Atheists should not care about other living beings.


Why?


Because I feel that no living being should knowingly inflict harm on another living being. Nobody is perfect and will manage to follow that perfectly but it makes sense to treat others in the same way you would like to be treated yourself.


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27 Mar 2011, 9:01 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


For the record, I am concerned with how animals are treated, however for me it is partially out of religious reasons that we are all God's creations.
The same reason that we somehow care about how people are killed? :roll:

Seriously if a fear of burning in hell is the only thing holding people back then humanity is a lost cause to begin with.



Inuyasha
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27 Mar 2011, 9:02 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


For the record, I am concerned with how animals are treated, however for me it is partially out of religious reasons that we are all God's creations.
The same reason that we somehow care about how people are killed? :roll:

Seriously if a fear of burning in hell is the only thing holding people back then humanity is a lost cause to begin with.


Ah but humans are the same species, these animals are ones we eat.



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27 Mar 2011, 9:03 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


For the record, I am concerned with how animals are treated, however for me it is partially out of religious reasons that we are all God's creations.


So one needs to be religious to be humane? Its more likely that an Atheist will support animal rights then a devout Christian, as many Christians don't believe animals have souls and are essentially the domain of people to do as they will.

I also don't believe animals have souls, but likewise I don't think Humans have souls either, thus eliminating the speciest-anthropocentric soul ideal. My basis of animal welware stems from this: Animals have complex nervous systems like Humans and also interpret pain and suffering in the same manner as Humans. I am inherently uninterested in causing pain and suffering.

Does that have anything to do with religion? Really, "Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane" :lmao: give me a break


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PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 9:04 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


For the record, I am concerned with how animals are treated, however for me it is partially out of religious reasons that we are all God's creations.
The same reason that we somehow care about how people are killed? :roll:

Seriously if a fear of burning in hell is the only thing holding people back then humanity is a lost cause to begin with.


Ah but humans are the same species, these animals are ones we eat.


What if super intelligent ET's were to come to Earth and they for some reason decided to eat humans and had their own religion, I guess we would be the animals even though they would be smart enough to see our suffering, their religion would give them the right to be able to do it because they are "superior" to us. Hmmmmmmm.....


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27 Mar 2011, 9:06 pm

This is the thin edge of the wedge. Another Triangle Shirtwaist Fire shall surely happen and the small government crowd will want to pin a medal on the next Max Blanck following that.

When you say that private property rights when it comes to business, not individuals, are sacred to the point of permitting abuse to take place, then this is the logic that will cause many human fatalities, that's for sure.



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27 Mar 2011, 9:07 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


For the record, I am concerned with how animals are treated, however for me it is partially out of religious reasons that we are all God's creations.
The same reason that we somehow care about how people are killed? :roll:

Seriously if a fear of burning in hell is the only thing holding people back then humanity is a lost cause to begin with.


Ah but humans are the same species, these animals are ones we eat.
I understand that but why would atheism make you indifferent to animals having to suffer to die? If you have compassion for human beings then you also have a degree of compassion for animals. That's why killing animals for kicks is a sign of sociopathy. It's not a matter of whether or not it's logical to have concern for how they die.

Logic is a means, emotion is an end. Logic pertains to the end. If you wanna rob a store, it's illogical to be friendly to the clerk. If you wanna help the clerk, it's illogical to rob the store.



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27 Mar 2011, 9:09 pm

The logic is that business is the vital motor for the whole of society, that everything must exist to cater to the fickle people who run businesses, and that such things as measures preventing 148 people from burning to death or plummeting nine storeys to their deaths shall inhibit these magicians from working their magic, and this will never do. There is no alternative but to sacrifice lives for the sake of these people who are essentially treated as jealous gods. They are all-powerful and quick to anger. One does not give orders to a god, one worships a god and obeys.



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28 Mar 2011, 12:52 am

The biggest problems with the reforms suggested is that is substantially increases the price of the food. In the case of the use of gestation crates, farmers that can't use them or promised not to use them have been complaining that half their sows are miscarrying.


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28 Mar 2011, 1:38 am

Vigilans wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Many major abuses of animals have been discovered by undercover people who use hidden cameras. If we were to just inform the suspected industries that 'inspection is on this day at this time' then the abuses will never be discovered. You absolutely cannot take an industry known for abuses' word for it. Then again the US media is working very hard to make the idea of whistle-blowing as unpatriotic as possible


Solution: Have surprise legal inspections. If the industrial site does not admit inspectors when they show up and identify themselves large fines are charged.

ruveyn


That is a good idea, but why should employees not be allowed to bring attention to their company's excesses?

Step 1: Employees contact the appropriate regulatory agencies to report abuses
Step 2: Said agencies arrange a surprise inspection

There we go. Problem solved.


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28 Mar 2011, 3:16 am

John_Browning wrote:
The biggest problems with the reforms suggested is that is substantially increases the price of the food. In the case of the use of gestation crates, farmers that can't use them or promised not to use them have been complaining that half their sows are miscarrying.

*snort*
funny, the reason that they claimed that they had to use them in the first place was that the sows would lay on and crush their own piglets without.

IIrc, gestation crates are illegal in most of Europe, and with good reason; personally seeing a sow in such a crate got me off of pork 15 years or so ago. Maybe the pigs in America are just too inbred to reproduce naturally - but that's an argument to let the breed die out, not an argument for more gestation crates.



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28 Mar 2011, 6:17 am

xenon13 wrote:
When you say private property rights ... are sacred to the point of permitting abuse to take place ...

That is not being said. What is being said is the same as saying a maid cannot seek your employment for the purpose of spying upon you.


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28 Mar 2011, 8:28 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?

For the record, I am concerned with how animals are treated, however for me it is partially out of religious reasons that we are all God's creations.


I suppose because Atheists have a sense of morality, you tool.

And how is it any less illogical for a Christian to cry over their dinner's mistreatment? Is it because logic can be bent or re-written to come to what ever conclusion you set out to prove? Is it because logic is "the work o' Satan!"? Don't throw around the Atheist = Evil argument without evidence (another word missing from the Christian Dictionary, I suppose?)


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28 Mar 2011, 8:33 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


For the record, I am concerned with how animals are treated, however for me it is partially out of religious reasons that we are all God's creations.


Someone's going to have to help me with this; I'm evidently too stupid to understand.

...my non-belief in a deity would prevent me from opposing suffering of sentient creatures because....?


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