Atheist Zealot

Post Reply New Topic

Most of them don't. You get your Huxley (Aldous) types though - who believe in it's all chemicals in their brain, but dabble with it anyway. I have been of this type. I'm strictly speaking an agnostic, like Huxley. I'm also materialist.

The other day, I pointed out to a seminary student and some of his friend that this country (United States of America) was not founded as a Christian nation. I felt pretty good about it, since I managed to relieve them of a small portion their collective ignorance by simply getting them to actually read the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and the Constitution. This exercise paralleled the "Let's Open the Bible" method that evangelicals use to convert the ignorant.

Nowhere did we find any direct statement by the founding fathers that they intended this country to be a Christian nation, even though many of the premises of these documents shared some commonality with Christian values.

Then I pointed out that the Founding Fathers had not abolished slavery, nor had they allowed women to vote - values that they agreed were not Christian at all (unless you turn the calendar back to the 1st century C.E.).

Even the Gettysburg Address does not say "... of the Christians, by the Christians, and for the Christians ..."

I've been informed recently that not only do they and many of our mutual acquaintances now consider me to be an Atheist (which I'm not), there is some rumor going around that I'm a seditious traitor who is not a "real" citizen of this country.

So much for Christian love - it's experiences like this (being criticized for discovering the truth behind a popular myth) that drives people out of the Christian churches.

Ah, Vexillifer!

What sayest thou to the guy who out of the blue rants at somebody for having an opinion?



I live in a wooden house. I have never seen a whale shark. Nobody can lasso a cow. How ridiculous to think some people claim there are coelacanths and that it is possible to put alligators to sleep.

Anyway - who said anything about fairies and astrology?

but i would say that has more to do with the people than the religion. i personally would have loved to talk with you about those things without being threatened in the slightest.
umm.. i think you have entitlement problems when you give your point of view to those who neither care or are willing to receive it. you might as well be standing on a soap box screaming at people in the mall next to the religious nut job. that's how zealots come across to me be it atheist or religious. if you don't know me, or what i stand for, then how dare you presume to tell me what i should believe.

Last edited by Knifey on 29 Aug 2011, 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Right. In fact, it duplicates any number of interactions with my so enlightened ever so academic freedom university colleagues whenever I did a but but but at a sacred cow. Nothing to do with what one would recognize as religion here.

I once babysat a colleague's class. In my session with them I demonstrated - with full evidence - that certain statements made in the textbook were simplistic garbage. Upset class, upset colleague, who then lobbied to ensure I never would teach that language again.

It IS in the mindset, and NOTHING to do with the particular belief system.

And to say a certain mindset is attracted to christianity is also felonious. that's why there are thousands of christian churches who are all different to each other. people usually try multiple churches until they find one they like, or if its a massive church they try lots of small groups within that church. and to say a church molds your brain into a certain way of thinking is also garbage, in my experience people actively look for churches that "make sense" to them, implying their minds are made up and they see the world in a certain way. but i admit i have no experience with mainstream churches that are often cult like in their rituals, doctrine, and internal hierarchy.

I would love to hear the facts that definitively explain why there is no God. please PM me as I had no idea. Just FYI I believe in the multiple big bang, evolution, and quantum physics already. in fact, make it an open call to all the atheists out there, please try and enlighten me and stop me believing there is a God. (if you just want to talk at me and don't want a conversation that might expand your mind, don't bother PMing me)

I'm generally of the live and let live philosophy. I don't see the need to inflict my opinions on others, unless they ask for them, or are generally showing an interest in that side of things.

I find aggressive atheism as narrow minded and distasteful as aggressive religious belief.

This world is not black or white, there are many shades of grey or rainbow thinking, and always have been.

Religion/spirituality can harm or heal. It depends on the mindset of the adherent as much as the shade of religion they adhere to.

Sir Robert Boyd - astronomer and Christian, Stanley Jaki - physicist and priest. Robert T Bakker - paleontologist and pastor.
Nadine Dorries - MP and annoying woman (Christian), Billy Graham, John Stott, Rick Warren, Mother Theresa

Don't know if they all count as 'hardcore' though.

Christopher Hitchens would be interesting to look at too, from the Dawkins camp.

Thanks Henbane, I'll look em up when I got a few mins

Here's a great quote I just read elsewhere on the forum:

if you want an example of extremist creationist christian kind of thing check out ken ham. ned flanders would love him.

News flash: using bold to draw attention to statements of ignorance is not something I'd do

let's randomly connect, say..... cartography and pixies. Yeaaah, them map makers can't get enough pixies

AG, I think you might be saying something quite interesting, but I can't quite work out what. Would you mind rephrasing?

Don't forget Bertrand Russell.

Like.

Forgive me AG, I find your language use a tad unusual, so I'm trying to respond to what I think you are asking as best as I can. If I have misunderstood, let me know.

I don't believe that there is a single, valid, real reality.

The story told by naturalism is interesting. Personally, I find all kinds of science quite interesting, and the theory of evolution does not invalidate my own personal 'religion'.

I would like to see the forces of science and religion open up to each other, as I believe each have interesting and useful things to say about our universe.



I don't believe all religions are wrong.

I don't find my own claims crazy either. Not that I've made many.



Not sure I can make anything sensible to me about this paragraph, care to rephrase?



Well Dawkins' view on the subject is interesting, but is it any more 'the truth' than anything else? It must feel like truth to him, and I have seen why, and I understand.

I could see that the way a particular culture uses words will perhaps lead one to frame one's religious, mystical, or mundane experience in certain ways. I'm not sure what you're getting at?



I have experienced far worse mocking in my time.

Is astrology inaccurate? What kind of accuracy and how much accuracy?

I think astrology may be mainly unstudied by scientists for a number of reasons. I think the major hurdle is probably the prevailing cultural bias (especially in the scientific community) against astrology.

A scientific assessment of astrology is something I'd love to do personally, but don't have the resources for, and may well never. My experience has shown to me that it is valid and useful, and that will have to do for now.

I've seen the ruckus over Gauquelin's work, and I can't decide whether it was really validated or invalidated. Too much of a mess. Without repeating the experiments properly and personally, I think one can only fall back on one's own experience/beliefs

If you have links to material that absolutely, definitively invalidates astrology, and is not based on misconceptions about astrology (as many of these things tend to be) I'd love to see it.

Science is not free from cognitive bias, and is not free from social, cultural, political and economic influence.

Enjoy your peyote trance, and if you learn something useful, I hope you retain it and can integrate it into your regular program.


To those who are not at all interested in astrology: I apologise for going off topic.

Last edited by Moog on 29 Aug 2011, 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

I read a lot of Bertrand Russell when I was younger, and quite liked him. I never got from him the feeling of general hatred for theists that Dawkins seems to emmanate. Maybe it's just a sign of our times, people seem much harder and colder these days. Or maybe it was just my perception at the time.

Chicken versus beef, no, but Vegans do beat the conversion drum quite often.